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Old 02-12-2004, 09:34 AM   #1
Alucard
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Doom 3

Ok, this might be a little harsh of me to pick at this ad, specifically since its from IGN and they just leave, like, a billion openings for this sort of thing. Only reason I saw it was cause there was a link at a place I usually go to and it had a rather amusing little detail, which I'll point out to when I get there, which made me go to it. I'm gonna post up bits of the preview here and put my 2 cents in, but mainly as informative observations they dont really decide to mention.. ahem...

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Of course, the screens and movies that we've been shown are all based on the PC version. How will a game that obviously has steep PC requirements run even remotely well on the Xbox? Well, there's a lot to consider here. First off is texture resolution. With the lower resolution of television sets (yes, even HDTVs), the use of lower-res textures is less noticeable. Also, the Achilles heel for all PC games is the requisite lowest common denominator; because everyone has a slightly different PC configuration, developers must choose the lowest acceptable configuration, and build the game from there. That means no PC game in existence is truly optimized for cutting-edge hardware to the fullest potential.

A good example of this is to look at a game like Deus Ex: Invisible War or Knights of the Old Republic. Available on both the PC and Xbox, both games look quite similar asides from higher resolutions, sharper textures, and perhaps a lighting effect here and there. Yet the Xbox's hardware specs are that of a less-than-midrange PC. Because everyone has the same Xbox with the same hardware specs, developers can tweak and optimize the code, using every bit of the console's potential power.
Ok this part got under my skin slightly. Low res textures wont look better on a lower res because its a TV. There will be less details, and more blurryness in it. Thats what a low res texture is. A TV doesn't make low res textures suddenly spiffy high. ITs the amount of detail you can stuff into it. Memory limitations is the main culprit.

Also the way they mention those two games as proof of what they say....gah.. Both those games were designed from the ground up for the XBox and then LATER ported to PC. You can tell its a port because the graphics aren't as good as they could be and the controls/interface are either slightly dodgy or not quite right. A fan made high res textures for DX2 in less then a week that looked so much better then the original version that it pretty much humiliated the developers.

Also the thing about designing games for the average PC system, not really. Thats why you can customize the amount of effects you can have and resolution and everything else. So if you have a high end system you can put it to full, or a low end you put it to low, or customize how you want. I know most of you should know how this works. I'm just wondering if these guys previewing the game have actually played PC games.

They've had a demo of Doom3 running and you could download a recent video clip of it. Its basically the game running at 640x480 on a geforce 3 with supposedly full effects. It looks very nice. What they tell you later is that its running on a 3gig cpu and 1gig memory. That might sound normal, but 640x480 is bare minimum. People play games at the average of 1024x700. I'm scared to see how its going to run at 800x600. At least the writer makes a point to say the screenshots are from the PC version. Wise move there since they've been caught out often before trying to say otherwise.

Anyway, heres the part that caught my eye..

Quote:
So will the Xbox version be a direct port of the PC game? More or less, though there will be a few changes. See, a console game and a PC game are two completely different experiences because of the controls. When you play a game with a controller, there are things that feel more natural than if you are using a keyboard and mouse, and vice versa. Think about Halo for instance. The Xbox version was great because there were a lot of subtle details that made the game play so well with a controller. From the slower character movement to the reticule that lit up when over an enemy, the game was paced just right for a console first-person shooter. On the PC, the game feels like a console port, and doesn't feel as good.

Vicarious Visions is aware of this, and will be adjusting Doom 3 in a similar way. The core game will be the same, of course, but the game will be tuned to be more console-friendly, so to speak. This means that where the enemies appear, how many of them there are, and such will be adjusted. The game will not be an easier or "dumbed-down" version of the game. The pacing will just be better and more suited to console gaming. According to Saulnier, you're successful in doing such a thing if players don't realize that anything has even been changed.
As for multiplayer, other than the fact that it's going to be on Xbox Live, we don't know much but expect to see the same offerings as on the PC. One of the cool aspects about the PC version of Doom 3, though, is that player models no longer have a generous hit box around them. That means you actually have to hit the character's polygons to score damage. Why the change? Because, according to id CEO Todd Hollinshead, as players' skill increases, the targets must become smaller to compensate. Then again, making precise shots using a controller can be a bit more difficult than with a mouse, so maybe this will be one of the console changes added to the port.
So the game isn't dumbed down for the console. Though less enemies appear...and you dont actually need to aim at something to hit it... Nope. Not at all. Good to see you lot will have your training wheels on while playing this game I like the way he tries to put a positive spin on the consolevs PC controls, saying you just have to do certain things to make it feel right. Ofcourse you do since a controller has way less acuracy and control then a keyboard mouse so it needs to be lessened. Although I'm curious, what about the people who want to play with a keyboard and mouse on the XBox? I dont think they'll have as much fun since I dont think theres going to be any sensitivity options or the like. I mean none of the games have so far.

I for one am actually really glad they mentioned this, as alot of fps on consoles people refuse to believe theres an added radius around targets to hit them easier. They seem to think its full skill with a controller. *coughcough*Red Faction*coughcough*. Thumbs up to the guy for mentioning this.

Yeah I know. It sounds like I'm trashing the XBox version. Not really. Just the guys write up. If you cant afford a good PC then logic stresses the XBox version is for that person. Its still going to look great. Though I wonder what they plan to change. The real lighting is going to have to go in some form and be changed. Probably fake it in some way for some areas etc etc.. Anyway rambling now. Heres the link for the full thing. Not a bad preview, despite the two parts I mentioned.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/491/491780p1.html
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Old 02-12-2004, 05:02 PM   #2
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Good find.

I think it's important that IGN stress that no matter how well the game is ported, it will be the pc version that is the definitive game. That being said, it still sounds like they are taking the time to create as good as a port as a console can create of a high end pc game.

Given Halo 2, Doom 3, Mech Assault 2, Half Life 2 all in the fall, it will be fps heaven!
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:47 AM   #3
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whenever I get the chance on a ported PC game I turn off the damn auto aim function and crank up my sensitivity, max payne for instance, then I bought Mafia the other day and good heck its so dumbed down that you click the L2 and R2 buttons to switch and lock onto enemies

I WANT A TOP NOTCH PC!!!
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:26 AM   #4
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might want to cross HL2 off that list DBJay. They're having a hard enough trouble actually releasing it period.
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:17 PM   #5
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True, but must remain hopeful! Ninja G. just got pushed into March! The dog days of spring are in full effect.
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:38 PM   #6
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MARCH!? will this game ever come??!!
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Old 02-14-2004, 01:09 AM   #7
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Point to me for saying it would be delayed!
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Old 02-14-2004, 02:12 AM   #8
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i checked out doom 3 playing the leaked alpha and it looks better then when i saw the kid downstairsl play the leaked hl2 just wanted to point that out btw basically same pc's.
i think doom 3 is going to be amazing on pc. dont know much for xbox though.
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Old 02-14-2004, 05:15 AM   #9
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amen alucard,ive been trying to tell my buddies that doom3 on the xbox will be watered down in some way(not saying it will be bad)pc with all the bells and whistels are hard to beat.
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Old 02-16-2004, 12:49 AM   #10
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(sniffs) keep rubbing it in
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Old 02-16-2004, 02:39 AM   #11
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Good points, Alucard.

Quote:
Alucardo wrote:
People play games at the average of 1024x700
If this is true, then it needs to be noted that this is LESS than even the lowest HDTV resolution.
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Old 02-16-2004, 03:06 AM   #12
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what is hdtv resolutions???
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Old 02-16-2004, 03:42 AM   #13
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1280 x 720
&
1920 x 1080
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Old 02-16-2004, 04:00 AM   #14
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It depends on the TV. Not all of them are like that. Besides, I said average gamer. Like me. All my friends have a fixation of playing it at like the highest res their monitors can do. Crazy people. I like a game to look good AND perform well. Not just look good. And normally an xbox game doesn't go the full length of what a HDTV will offer. What they do with Doom3 I honestly have no clue. I have a feeling they may leave it at 640x480. The higher the res, the more processing power you need. The Xbox doesn't have that much.
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Old 02-16-2004, 02:35 PM   #15
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i think he meant by dot pitch

hdtv's dot pitch is still a lot lower (or is it higher, i meant worse), than most current (i would say all, but there might be still old old monitors out there) monitors, so in effect a lower res console game can still escape the jaggy mess (unlike on monitor, u have to play higher res to rid the jaggies, or put on fsaa)
the same applies to texture res (ng demo don't have fsaa i hear, heh, some ppl already overreact to that)

i agree by the dumbing down though, he should just point out the obvious (being tuned for console, which is good, u don't want the same no. of enemies, etc etc just to be hampered by the controls, better put an enjoyable experience taking into accounts controls etc etc ) rather than add that its not being dumbed down etc etc

lightning will be intact i hope, since thats the sole reason id went into this route for d3 engine (uniform lightning, no lightmaps, stencil shadows)

if they change the lightning, it won't be doom3 engine as we know it anymore

if they lower the texture res (as i fully expect them to), lower the poly (bump mapping will still be intact), at least it would still be recognizable as doom 3

one thing that scares me though is vicarious vision, the one doing the porting isn't exactly a stellar xbox dev
hoping that john carmack and co. keep a close watch on the port

fan made textures is made for fans by fans, they don't have to be tested on a variety of hw (lowest to highest) like the default ones do

-aneep-
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