More 'Steam Box' rumours from Valve

[Icarus4578]

No, not Apple in and of themselves, but Valve is obviously thinking of transplanting the Steam experience to a console format.

[KingOfSentinels]

Apple likely wouldn't give a better experience than what others can give, but could simply barge others out of the way using that Apple brand people seem to die for and all that money. Their marketing strategy, some of the stuff which gets through their testing for the App Store, their horrible handling of the Mac, and how closed they are wouldn't work out on a home console. Even Gabe attacked them for that a year-ish ago.

Speaking at a panel at the Washington Technology Industry Association organized TechNW conference in Seattle, Gabe Newell, who is the leader of Valve, has stated, “On the platform side, it’s sort of ominous that the world seems to be moving away from open platforms.”

He added, “I’m worried that the things that traditionally have been the source of a lot of innovation are going – there’s going to be an attempt to close those off so somebody will say ‘I’m tired of competing with Google, I’m tired of competing with Facebook, I’ll apply a console model and exclude the competitors I don’t like from my world.’”

Newell went on to say that he sees the Apple, presumably when it comes to the iOS devices and the App Store, as being a very closed platform that attracts customers with its design and then keeps them close as renters rather than owners.

Valve, on the other hand, are much more open and get gamers. Apple have proven they don't, or have little interest in them; Apple care about all the money in the casual market, whereas Valve has always been more about the hardcore crowd, which is exactly what I want. I don't want another Wii, a console catering to the casual crowd.

I want a console from the dev who gives all updates for free, gives away one of their games for free to everyone in celebration, who continue to make great games, and cracked digital distribution on PC. They wouldn't put in the butt tonne of regulations like MS, Sony and Apple probably would put in.

Both would do well for different reasons, but I can't see a partnership being on the cards.

[darren]

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

some of the stuff which gets through their testing for the App Store

yes because the android store/steam/orign/ wii shop/psn/xbl NEVER let anything buggy go through do they

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

their horrible handling of the Mac

wtf are you on about here? the OS is amazing, shit on anything MS can dish up, the hardware is amazing, and it sells like hot potatoes .. if thats horrible handling i love to see well handled

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

how closed they are wouldn't work out on a home console..

isn't that the entire point of a console? (buy box, plug box into tv, play on box)

[KingOfSentinels]

Originally Posted by darren

yes because the android store/steam/orign/ wii shop/psn/xbl NEVER let anything buggy go through do they

Not in the same league as the App Store does, do you just ignore it? I remember the news about a Pokemon ROM that passed quality and didn't even work on anyone's phone. That got through testing. No idea about Android but I've not seen Steam do anything like that.

A "scam" app claiming to replicate Nintendo's Pokémon Yellow has appeared on the iOS App Store, once again highlighting Apple's questionable quality control.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com...er-fire-again/

It's quite a known thing, obviously, so I don't know how you miss it.

wtf are you on about here? the OS is amazing, shit on anything MS can dish up, the hardware is amazing, and it sells like hot potatoes .. if thats horrible handling i love to see well handled

We're talking about gaming here remember. From a gaming perspective their OS is not good at all. And they've never really catered to Gamers; why would anyone want a company like that as the creator of a game console?

isn't that the entire point of a console? (buy box, plug box into tv, play on box)

No one says it has to be. There's not an agreement you have to sign saying 'Will have a closed off platform' when creating a console. Valve have the Steam Workshop up now, they could easily allow modding on the console and other stuff like that. And since Valve constantly whine about closed platforms, it'd be a bit hypocritical of them to not released an open platform.

[Alucard]

There are a shitload of games that are exclusive to pcs. You enable them to work with a specifically designed controller that mimicks a keyboard/mouse functionality, and you suddenly have a console for the people who are as thick as xbox gamers, but also too poor or dont have the room for a gaming pc. Now you have a console that players pc games as well as 3/4 of the games that appear on normal consoles. Boom. Now add in the apple stuff, crossplatform with iphones/ipads. Double boom.

[KingOfSentinels]

Valve already have patents for a controller with a track-ball which mimics mouse functionality, and with how many devs are switching over to Steamworks and adore Steam, particularly Indie devs, they'll likely have a tonne of support too if a console was ever made. And the important thing is that'd be a different experience than the other consoles, and would be actually worth buying.

[darren]

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Not in the same league as the App Store does, do you just ignore it?

i have never had an app on my ipad not work so i wouldn't know. i'v had shit loads on my droid phone that don't work tho

also how many 1000s more apps etc go on to the app store over any other?[/quote]

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

We're talking about gaming here remember. From a gaming perspective their OS is not good at all.

i know we are talking about games .. and what about the OS from your vast experience of programming OSX means it cant run games well? do tell?

nothing is the answer tbh if you know what your on about, MACs limitations are from the closed hardware. no one made mac games as there was no market for them not due to the fact they couldnt or it was hard. Yes pre OSX it was more difficult as apple made customs chips etc but they use standard parts now and hav done for ages. C++, perl, ruby, python or any other language you might want to use is the same on ANY computer. and the mac OS will run most if not all of them faster and less process hungry than a windows OS.

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

And they've never really catered to Gamers; why would anyone want a company like that as the creator of a game console?

nor did sony pre ps1, nor did MS when they entered the market with the XBOX .. anyone thinking you cant make console as you don't cater to the market

a/ doesnt know the history of the industry
b/ wears blickers

christ Nin made playing cards before video games

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

No one says it has to be. There's not an agreement you have to sign saying 'Will have a closed off platform' when creating a console. Valve have the Steam Workshop up now, they could easily allow modding on the console and other stuff like that. And since Valve constantly whine about closed platforms, it'd be a bit hypocritical of them to not released an open platform.

no but they are and will be in terms of the hardware. christ even a valve system would be closed hardware with modding the games , and modding is one thing that is easy to implement on any systems if anyone wants.

anyone thinking valve would let people pop out memory, cpus or gpus on a console are living in cloud cockoo land. which is why teaming up would make good sense, apple would bring the hardware, valve the DD. makes perfect sense tbh unless you hate apple.

wont happen .. but makes perfect sense

Originally Posted by Alucard

There are a shitload of games that are exclusive to pcs. You enable them to work with a specifically designed controller that mimicks a keyboard/mouse functionality, and you suddenly have a console for the people who are as thick as xbox gamers, but also too poor or dont have the room for a gaming pc. Now you have a console that players pc games as well as 3/4 of the games that appear on normal consoles. Boom. Now add in the apple stuff, crossplatform with iphones/ipads. Double boom.

indeed .. all apple need to do is beef up the specs on the apple tv box /add a controller/ steam job done .. it would print money .. anyone able to create a gif with cook/gabe holding an apple tv box that prints money?

[KingOfSentinels]

Originally Posted by darren

i have never had an app on my ipad not work so i wouldn't know. i'v had shit loads on my droid phone that don't work tho

also how many 1000s more apps etc go on to the app store over any other?

Not saying every app doesn't work, but just Google Search to find hundreds of articles about Apple's sometimes quite shoddy quality control. It's not anything new.

i know we are talking about games .. and what about the OS from your vast experience of programming OSX means it cant run games well? do tell?

nothing is the answer tbh if you know what your on about, MACs limitations are from the closed hardware. no one made mac games as there was no market for them not due to the fact they couldnt or it was hard. Yes pre OSX it was more difficult as apple made customs chips etc but they use standard parts now and hav done for ages. C++, perl, ruby, python or any other language you might want to use is the same on ANY computer. and the mac OS will run most if not all of them faster and less process hungry than a windows OS.

No, it's not the hardware, or that at least is not the only reason; I don't proclaim myself to be a Mac expert, I've got little interest in their build, but I'm not clueless, I've worked with Macs and developed for them for a tiny amount of time. Modern macs have hardware capabilities which match the PCs, despite the always piss-high price of it all. Matching hardware in a PC or a Mac won't have, or shouldn't have, substantial performance differences. Pretty sure this wasn't always the case but Macs always come with nVidia dedicated graphics cards now and Intel CPUs, which has made them a less of an appalling mess when it comes to gaming.

The problem lies with, like the PS3, the Mac providing a difficult development process for any but dedicated projects for the platform; porting over to a Mac is a horrible mess of crap and for a small market is never worth it, which tends to have games un-optimised or never even brought over, with most out-sourced to third parties. Apple has never tried to alleviate any of these difficulties either, and so I wouldn't buy a gaming console of a company like that. A lack of Directx, since Macs use OpenGL natively, and needing to run a Windows emulator for most games just adds to it being a bad gaming platform, added together with all the annoying perks Macs bring to the table. Shoddy drivers and slow upgrading of renderers piles on while Windows storms forward with Directx12 on the horizon.

Portal 2 performance tests echo this. Tests performed on Mac machines, with Windows 7 then being emulated via Boot Camp and having Portal 2 run, which was likely the most optimised game for a while the Mac has seen, saw Windows running it considerably better; it's moreso the software which hampers the games. Valve ported Portal 2 over well, and it runs worse on OS X than an emulated Windows. Something's not right there obviously.

nor did sony pre ps1, nor did MS when they entered the market with the XBOX .. anyone thinking you cant make console as you don't cater to the market

a/ doesnt know the history of the industry
b/ wears blickers

christ Nin made playing cards before video games

So you'd rather have a developer who could change over a one which doesn't need to change? Valve is more in-touch with gamers and knows what they want than Apple is, and the only reason they'd be successful is because they're Apple. Take away the name and they'd fall flat on their arse if they attempted anything. They make good tech but not once have they proven they're anything close to a gaming company and they've never tried to be.

Valve, with Steam, has a huge chance of producing something innovative and different for the console market, without brandishing limitations over gamers and developers, and I'd choose them in a heartbeat. They'd cater to the hardcore market, whereas Apple would go for the money; the casual market. Who wants that? Wasn't that one of the biggest complaints about the Wii?

no but they are and will be in terms of the hardware. christ even a valve system would be closed hardware with modding the games , and modding is one thing that is easy to implement on any systems if anyone wants.

anyone thinking valve would let people pop out memory, cpus or gpus on a console are living in cloud cockoo land. which is why teaming up would make good sense, apple would bring the hardware, valve the DD. makes perfect sense tbh unless you hate apple.

wont happen .. but makes perfect sense

I was talking about software modification, not hardware which no console is likely going to let you do. Valve's Steam Workshop is just the perfect chance to bring modding to the console scene, and without making it too difficult for people either who find copy and pasting files to be tough.

I don't hate Apple. The Apple fanbase is the biggest retarded cesspit ever; Apple Lovers who think the sun shines from their arse, thinking they can do no wrong and will defend Apple to the death, are just as big of a retard as the haters who hate on anything they do. I'm completely indifferent to them as a company.

Apple make good tech. I disagree with their marketing stategy, but it works for phones I guess. I'd love an iPhone but don't have the money to splash out on one yet, my phone works and so until this breaks I've no interest in getting another.

Valve has shown themselves to be a much more worthy gaming overlord, and I'd pick them over Apple for a gaming console anyday. Again, Apple would likely stick to catering to the casual market, whereas Valve will stick with the hardcore crowd. They haven't forsaken PC Gaming and I doubt ever will. So why would people want another Wii? Everyone whined that it catered to the casual market than the hardcore, but it's okay for Apple to do that?

[edit]

Even found this little bit on Tom's Hardware about why Mac Gaming sucks:

So, if the Mac isn’t the problem, what is? Simple: it’s Apple.

The Mac is not an especially easy platform for which to develop games. It has become a bit easier to create Mac games since the transition to Intel chips, but Apple could care less about game developers who want to create Mac-compatible titles. The main reasons why there are not more Mac games out there are due to Mac OS X, the lack of developer tools, such as the DirectX SDK on Windows; and graphics hardware that simply does not run the latest and greatest. Hate Microsoft as much as you want, the fact is that games on Windows have been a focus at Microsoft since Windows 95. When was the last time you heard Steve Jobs talking about support for game developers on Mac OS X? Graphics cards and Macs are a sad story, but as long as Steve Jobs calls the next iMac the most gorgeous iMac ever, we all are willing to accept mediocre graphics performance, right?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/val...mac,10022.html

[darren]

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Matching hardware in a PC or a Mac won't have, or shouldn't have, substantial performance differences.

if you think that then you obviously know nothing about windows/linux based OS performance differences.

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Apple has never tried to alleviate any of these difficulties either, and so I wouldn't buy a gaming console of a company like that. A lack of Directx, since Macs use OpenGL natively, and needing to run a Windows emulator for most games

are you kidding me or do you REALLY think a CONSOLE would be built that needs a fucking windows emu ..LOL .. your clearly getting your apple desktop hate mixed up with building a new console.

As for DX how do you know a console wouldnt be built that didnt support it?

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Windows storms forward with Directx12 on the horizon.

what has that got to do with a console??? nothing .. just look at the 360/wii/ps3 .. as to how meaningless that is for a console

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

I don't hate Apple.

two secs .. just clearing the dinner i just spat in the monitor up when i read that one ..

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Valve, with Steam, has a huge chance of producing something innovative and different for the console market, without brandishing limitations over gamers and developers, and I'd choose them in a heartbeat. They'd cater to the hardcore market, whereas Apple would go for the money; the casual market

who is talking about valve on their own?? i was talkign about the RUMOR valve/apple hook up as was alcauard .. which would do what nin FAILED to do with the wii .. combine BOTH markets .. or did you miss the point of that some how?

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

So you'd rather have a developer who could change over a one which doesn't need to change?

did i say that? or did i point out poo pooing Apple as they are currently not big on gaming is simply very blinkered and blind to whats gone in the past.

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

I was talking about software modification, not hardware which no console is likely going to let you do. Valve's Steam Workshop is just the perfect chance to bring modding to the console scene, and without making it too difficult for people either who find copy and pasting files to be tough.

which as i said could be simply put on ANY console .. bne it MS/Sony/Nin OR Apple

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Apple make good tech.

sooooooooooooooooooooo why couldnt they make a good console if teamed up with valve????? which after all this is about.

[KingOfSentinels]

Did you just ignore everything I said? A graphics card in a PC and a graphics card in a Mac will perform exactly the same, Apple don't press a little switch on their hardware components to magically make them perform worse. The problem arises with OS X, and how Apple handles it's software and their graphic drivers and renderers. And Apple has not attempted to fix this at all. They don't care about hardcore gamers. I've no interest in a company's game console with that mentality.

And on the flipside, you have a developer who has not once forgotten the hardcore market, particularly the PC market which made them so big, and have always shown they get gamers and cater to both them and developers. If Apple was a game developer, it would have done a Bioware and pissed off onto consoles to make more money in a heartbeat without even glancing back to PC.

[darren]

I did .. you said the mac OS is BAD .. i'm talking about the OS .. it will perform BETTER, driver will run better, etc etc .. what part of windows being as piece of shit dont you get when it comes to performance, bottel necks etc etc?

why dont apple fix the stuff you mentioned? Simple they dont give a shit about desktop gaming .. if they did .. id put good money on them fixing it quicker than MS could turn around patches/updates etc .. this is not about desktop gaming its about them POSSIBLY building a NEW console WITH valve .. or did you miss that bit

[KingOfSentinels]

Windows isn't a piece of shit. Kinda. Microsoft doesn't continuously develop DirectX library for nothing, which has now become a firm industry favourite among the current generation; Windows isn't fantastic, it's nothing amazing and you can say Mac OS and Linux etc. are the better OS, but for gaming, Windows and Microsoft stomps all over Apple like it's nothing.

You have one company with a known history, even up to now, of never catering to hardcore gamers, and another with a well-known history of always catering to hardcore gamers and doing a very good job of it, and you think the first will do a better job? Just seems to show that an Apple logo on anything makes people buy it since if this was some random company with no prior gaming knowledge we'd all be quite skeptical. People were skeptical about Microsoft entering the console market and they've got a butt tonne more gaming know-how than Apple.

I doubt they'll work together on a console. The companies are too different, it'd never work out, and it'd be Apple who would have to take the backseat; Gaming is Valve's thing. I doubt they'd like that. Valve would want an open, hardcore console, and Apple would want a closed, 'app' console for casual gamers.

The meeting was likely having something of Valve's on Apple's products and the like. A partnership; just don't see it. Could happen, obviously, but seems far-fetched.

[darren]

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Windows isn't a piece of shit.

memory leaks out the arse, shitty bottle necks .. compared to a linux based OS its a pile of shit

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Kinda. Microsoft doesn't continuously develop DirectX library for nothing, which has now become a firm industry favourite among the current generation; Windows isn't fantastic, it's nothing amazing and you can say Mac OS and Linux etc. are the better OS, but for gaming, Windows and Microsoft stomps all over Apple like it's nothing.

why because? because people use it or because windows some how runs software/drivers that couldnt POSSIBLY be ported if someone could be arsed?

dx is just software that could be ported.. and it would run more effiecintly on a linux based OS as the windows kernel is tripeIF someone could be arsed to port it .. there is no market so they dont.

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

You have one company with a known history, even up to now, of never catering to hardcore gamers, and another with a well-known history of always catering to hardcore gamers and doing a very good job of it, and you think the first will do a better job? Just seems to show that an Apple logo on anything makes people buy it since if this was some random company with no prior gaming knowledge we'd all be quite skeptical. People were skeptical about Microsoft entering the console market and they've got a butt tonne more gaming know-how than Apple.

why do you keep cutting and pasting this?

i have never said any of this .. i simply said YOU saying apple couldnt possibly make a good console as they are not in the industry as bullshit and used Sony and MS as prime example of why its a bullshit statement..

you keep missing one simple point as well .. i have ONLY ever talked about them working together .. NOT alone .. with regards to the apple/valve meeting .. what part of that is finding it hard to go in one ear/eye work its way up to a memory cell and remain there?

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

Valve would want an open, hardcore console,

which is why it would do just ok to a few valve fans who for some odd reason dont use pcs.

ohh btw a DD game is still an APP by definition.

also apple wouldnt give a shit about allowing stuff like steam works .. they have NEVER locked the OS, they lock down the hardware, which is what you would do with a console anyway .. christ IOS is based on bloody open source ffs

Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels

and Apple would want a closed, 'app' console for casual gamers.

would sell much better than steam box.

BUT .. lets add them both together which is the POINT .. and you have a very marketable value prop .. which is MUCH greater than the two parts that make it up

[Kiuju2k]

tl;dr

[calintz]

need popcorn