Nintendo and YOU, the debate.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by tpfkanep

I am excited.

Things are changing. There is a place for "hardcore" type of games as the 360 is proving. But the "new" Nintendo does not need those games to succeed ...altho New SMB did sell ~4 Million ob the DS...

I suppose gamers felt the same when
- dpads was introduced.
- 3D? 2D will be king forever.
- Online (maybe not).
- Non-games? Who needs Nintendogs, Brain Training, etc.

Okay, here's the deal. Just because Nintendo succeeds in the market doesn't mean they succeed in the minds of gamers. Sure, you'll argue that that isn't important, but if this generation goes by without anything more than these shit minigames, then the next Nintendo console will be the first one I never buy.

[darren]

Originally Posted by flowForth

Nintendo has stated they want to make games that are simple and "fun" to everybody. But the thing is you CAN make a great, fun game even if it is complex. Deus Ex is a homage to that .

i would hardly say Deus Ex is an example of a game that is fun for everyone ..

[flowForth]

Originally Posted by darren316

i would hardly say Deus Ex is an example of a game that is fun for everyone ..

True - and applicable to every game. I was thinking more along the lines of quality when I wrote that, though, while still having the capability of being fun - rather than "fun" for everyone (a contradiction since "fun" is subjective and tastes are different). Point remains though - a simpler game is not necessarily a better game.

[Alucard]

Deus Ex is a legendary game with alot of stuff done right in it. Deus Ex 2 is a steaming pile.

[darren]

Originally Posted by Alucard

Deus Ex is a legendary game with alot of stuff done right in it. Deus Ex 2 is a steaming pile.

one of the worlds biggest under statements there mate

[tpfkanep]

Originally Posted by flowForth

However, are they actually helping to advance video games, or is their new approach taking video games back to being considered as 'mere, trifling toys' that waste time?

What would your definition of 'videogame advancement' be? Would you say videogames really advanced since the NES to what we have today, or has there been a steady decline in gameplay values?

Videogames are a waste of time. At times it can be an exciting waste, other(most?) times it can be a... boring waste of time. I am glad to see the move away from being burdened with content (!), interactive movie-like games, etc.

I am glad for this minimalist approach, a return back to the roots of the industry. When games were fun. When games were simple. When games were a great waste of time. It is great, and sad, to see the reaction of the seasoned gamer to this new approach of Nintendo. True, fun is subjective, but in the greater scheme of things, nearly all those ~6 Million people are having fun with their Wiis. People who would have never picked up a controller in the past. With games like Wii Sports and Wii Play. Tech demos for the hardened gamer and technophiles. Fun and pure enjoyment for the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Alexander

Sure, you'll argue that that isn't important, but if this generation goes by without anything more than these shit minigames, then the next Nintendo console will be the first one I never buy.

That is fine. And that is what every gamer should do wrt Nintendo consoles/handhelds. If the direction and philosophy does not fit your digital lifestyle, there are other options available.

[Subway]

Originally Posted by tpfkanep

I am glad for this minimalist approach, a return back to the roots of the industry. When games were fun. When games were simple. When games were a great waste of time. It is great, and sad, to see the reaction of the seasoned gamer to this new approach of Nintendo. True, fun is subjective, but in the greater scheme of things, nearly all those ~6 Million people are having fun with their Wiis. People who would have never picked up a controller in the past. With games like Wii Sports and Wii Play. Tech demos for the hardened gamer and technophiles. Fun and pure enjoyment for the rest of us.That is fine. And that is what every gamer should do wrt Nintendo consoles/handhelds. If the direction and philosophy does not fit your digital lifestyle, there are other options available.

I, for one, am kinda wary of what you call a minimalist approach. If games like pong, pac-man, astroids etc. what you consider the roots, then count me out. These simple games do not engage me long enough or engage me simply for that matter. I want games with a gameplay concept that either change or evolve over time, while still maintaining the general concept.

Take Super Mario World for example, the gameplay consists of jumping platforms and reaching the end of the level, with a Boss at the castle, and power ups. But... it changes in variety of ways, theres moving platforms, teeter-totters, "donut" platforms (you know those platforms that are made up of rings where if you stand too long, it falls), railed platforms, moving bricks (looks like a bunch of squares but them move like a snake), platform that turn into coins ( when you press that switch), and the lists goes on.

Now a game like pac-man or pong does not have that variety, Pong in my opinion might be comparable to wii sports tennis save for the graphical face lift and a few changes in rules and types of returning shots. If games continue in this direction, people will soon be bored by the similarities of each game because there isn't enough substantial material to seperate one game from another.

Hopefully, nintendo will see that this is simply not enough and will continue develop games with content as they have done so before, so that other developers will follow suit. This way, gaming will not have to crash and burn like it almost did back then before nintendo existed.

[sharky~]

The Wii was a breath of fresh air, but the air got very stale very quickly.. and now its just boring.. The Wii wasnt very new at all, Its just a Game Cube in a new case..(What Nintendo does best) The only new thing is the controller.. and sure its getting lots of old people and woman into video games, but at a price.. Gamers THOUGHT this is what they wanted.. But really.. its far from it.

Mini games and PS2 ports with dodgy controls are just not worth it.

[Subway]

Originally Posted by sharky~

The Wii was a breath of fresh air, but the air got very stale very quickly..

The only thing that got stale is this thread.

Kidding aside, I have stated already stated the games coming out for it are probably (well...more like hopefully) just capitalizing off the hype of the Wii and only fundraising for future games with substantial content.

If games are continuing in this "mini-games" direction for another year or so, then we might as well just buy a ps3 or 360 to satisfy our needs when it comes to gaming.

[loempiavreter]

Originally Posted by tpfkanep

I am excited.

Things are changing. There is a place for "hardcore" type of games as the 360 is proving. But the "new" Nintendo does not need those games to succeed ...altho New SMB did sell ~4 Million ob the DS...

I suppose gamers felt the same when
- dpads was introduced.
- 3D? 2D will be king forever.
- Online (maybe not).
- Non-games? Who needs Nintendogs, Brain Training, etc.

Funny:

-Arcade Stick > Gamepad's
-Most games i enjoy are 2D
-I hate online.. just come over to play
-Those games are crap in my eyes..

My preference are the direct opposite XD

[tpfkanep]

Originally Posted by Subway

I, for one, am kinda wary of what you call a minimalist approach. If games like pong, pac-man, astroids etc. what you consider the roots, then count me out. These simple games do not engage me long enough or engage me simply for that matter.

I am glad that you mentioned Pong, etc. Even Super Mario World. Now the move from Pong to something like SMW: That is progress in terms of gameplay. Not the rubbish that has been going on from generation to generation that culminated in what we had last-gen: The games with movie-like production values, etc. Obviously, not all games were like that.

Pong in my opinion might be comparable to wii sports tennis save for the graphical face lift and a few changes in rules and types of returning shots.

That means that Wii tennis can be recreated on the Atari 2600, minus the graphics. Interesting. Why stop at Wii Tennis? What about Final Fantasy, Halo, Virtua Fighter, Project Gotham Racing, etc?

If games continue in this direction, people will soon be bored by the similarities of each game because there isn't enough substantial material to seperate one game from another.

You mean the same way that gamers are getting bored with the countless yearly sports updates, World War 2 shooters, bald space marines, movie tie-ins, car games, save the universe RPGs, etc?

If games are continuing in this "mini-games" direction for another year or so, then we might as well just buy a ps3 or 360 to satisfy our needs when it comes to gaming.

That really is the simplest solution to "Nintendo and YOU". To those that have a Wii and feel cheated: Sell the thing before it becomes widely available. That way you can still make a profit or at worst, break even.

Maybe it's time to move on. Get another hobby. Dust off the books, DVDs, etc. There was a time when arcades ruled. There was a time when boardgames, shoot-em-ups, fighters, platformers, shooters, etc. was popular. Some still are.

I welcome back the new gaming overlords: Nintendo. Heaven is not high enough.

[Drunken Savior]

Originally Posted by tpfkanep

I am glad that you mentioned Pong, etc. Even Super Mario World. Now the move from Pong to something like SMW: That is progress in terms of gameplay. Not the rubbish that has been going on from generation to generation that culminated in what we had last-gen: The games with movie-like production values, etc. Obviously, not all games were like that.

The movement from PONG (1972) to Super Mario World (1990) took 18 years!.

Let's take a popular game from today (2006-2007): The Legend of Zelda: The Twilight Princess and compare it to a game 18 years it's junior (1989). ZOMG! We're in the tail end of the NES era!

Seriously now....

[tpfkanep]

The movement from PONG (1972) to Super Mario World (1990) took 18 years!.

Fair enough.

Let's take a popular game from today (2006-2007): The Legend of Zelda: The Twilight Princess and compare it to a game 18 years it's junior (1989). ZOMG! We're in the tail end of the NES era!

A much more "valid" comparison if you mean the NES Zelda, but that is more a personal opinion of the greatness of the NES Zelda, and maybe not for this thread.

[Antipilor]

Originally Posted by Subway

If games are continuing in this "mini-games" direction for another year or so, then we might as well just buy a ps3 or 360 to satisfy our needs when it comes to gaming.

Thats kinda what the Wii has been the whole time. It's the "other console". Most people will buy a ps3 or 360 and if nintendo had tried to complete directly they just would have taken a small part of the market. So they made the console that was so different it would be near impossible to try and simply port them to the other consoles insuring nintendo a large amount of exclusives.

As for their image... what the hell do I care? I'm only concerned about playing some games not whether some chump is going to think I'm "kiddy" for playing it. If older people want to play it to, fine their not in my house doing it.

[Drunken Savior]

Originally Posted by tpfkanep

A much more "valid" comparison if you mean the NES Zelda, but that is more a personal opinion of the greatness of the NES Zelda, and maybe not for this thread.

I was comparing games of today to games 18 years ago to show the progress the industry has made since then. NES--->PS3.

That is an AMAZING change. To say that you are impressed by 18 years of technological improvements and in game design and are not impressed by a gen to gen change is elementary at best. And at the most, it shows that you really haven't put much thought into this tirade you are on...

Originally Posted by tpfkanep

I am glad that you mentioned Pong, etc. Even Super Mario World. Now the move from Pong to something like SMW: That is progress in terms of gameplay. Not the rubbish that has been going on from generation to generation that culminated in what we had last-gen: The games with movie-like production values, etc. Obviously, not all games were like that.