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Old 03-28-2012, 03:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander View Post

Sony pulling Motorstorm and Hot Shots Golf for the Vita is a perfect example.
Perfect example of what ?.. Them opting to pull something is nothing to do with the used market
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:40 PM   #32
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Wow, a lot of whiners lately. Take this from me who has run businesses for years with my family. You can't always win with the public, it's not used gaming that is hurting them. It's themselves. You are doing something that hurts your business. You find out what that is by listening to the people and you try and fix that problem.

My Father has been running stuff with this old mentally that if it isn't busy and we're not making money.... RAISE PRICES TO MAKE UP FOR IT................ No it doesn't work that way. Cause now you're going to stop the people who were buying your stuff to stop coming in and go to the next guy down the street.

So My brothers and I took over, my dad is almost 80 now , and we decided to make pizza orders come with lots of combos for free. Guess what? We're selling more than the other places in town. The only place that gets more business than us is the Tim Hortons down the street......... FUCKING TIMMIES! I HATE YOU!

But the same thing on New Year's Eve. We weren't getting many reservations for that day and we're usually booked solid, we found out most people were going to the "fancier places" that opened up a few years ago. Those places saw how busy they were for the first time in years, do you know what they decided to do................ 120 dollars a plate.............. and guess what happens afterwards? They all came to our place with tons of walk ins cause we didn't have a set price and you can order anything and still get our specials we had going. Hectic night.... holy crap is all I have to say. But because of them, we are busier now cause of their stupidity and greed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:50 PM   #33
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Whether or not used games hurts developers isn't debatable, it flat-out does; the only thing that's arguable is how much it hurts them. Developers aren't doing anything wrong with it because neither is anyone else. Buying something used isn't bad. It isn't ethically bad or illegal, like piracy, and so that's why people tend to block out the fact that it does hurt the industry quite a bit simply because it's not a bad thing. That's why it's harder, if not impossible, to defend restrictive measures to prevent used games like you can with piracy since, again, buying used isn't a bad thing to do.

So if a developer can prevent used games, or find a way to get some money from the sales without impacting the person's experience of the game in a negative way, they have every right to do so and good luck to them, and shouldn't have to withstand an ignorant barrage of 'GREED!!!!' and the like from people.

Digital distribution is an easy way to fix it, and isn't intrusive or experience ruining like some DRM can be on PC, and it will benefit the industry as a whole. Reducing costs and ups returns.

Also, make me a pizza Spider. I shall pay you in delicious mangos.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels View Post
Yes, there is greed this generation, never said there wasn't any. But this isn't greed. Wanting money for a sale of a game they made is not greedy.
And they get that. Saying they should get it twice is greed.

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And I have no idea what the Motorstorm and Hot Shots argument is a perfect example of. No idea what went on with them.
Sony removed them as downloads without explanation. That's exactly the kind of control I don't want in publishers hands.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander View Post
Sony removed them as downloads without explanation. That's exactly the kind of control I don't want in publishers hands.
There was a loophole in the games to allow you to hack the PSP part of the PSVita.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:58 PM   #36
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You might be wasting your energy on this topic, KoS. Doesn't look like you're making any headway.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander
And they get that. Saying they should get it twice is greed.


If the person couldn't buy it used, they'd buy it new. As I said, and read this closely now; why do people buy used? Price, and availability. So imagine a new game is the same price and available at the same time as a used game would be? And if it's bought new, the dev would get money from it. They're getting two sales they're owed, rather than one and an additional sale missed like what happens qith used. I thought I explained it quite clearly. Clearly not...

And believe it or not there's probably stuff behind the scenes as to why that happened and the games were removed, and that's a confined incident. Sony would get money from those games being sold; they wouldn't stop themselves getting money unless there was a damn good reason for doing so. No need to shit yourself over nothing.

*Edit* And Esca explains it. See, as I was saying, there's behind the scenes stuff.

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You might be wasting your energy on this topic, KoS. Doesn't look like you're making any headway.
It's starting to dawn on me that might be the case.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels View Post

If the person couldn't buy it used, they'd buy it new. As I said, and read this closely now; why do people buy used? Price, and availability. So imagine a new game is the same price and available at the same time as a used game would be?
Except that's not going to happen if things are DD only. The precendent has already been set.

And no, they are asking to be paid twice for the same sale. It's ridiculous.

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Whether or not used games hurts developers isn't debatable, it flat-out does
It is completely debatable. It is not a concrete fact.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:11 PM   #39
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I'm just Glad Steam saved me from all this bullshit. I'll fucking boycott a DD only console. I'm not giving up that much control as a consumer and thanks to PC I don't have to.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander
Except that's not going to happen if things are DD only. The precendent has already been set.

And no, they are asking to be paid twice for the same sale. It's ridiculous.
How can you not figure this out? Even my dog understands from how many times I've said it.

If a game is offered digitally, it's always available new. Again, unless there's some behind the scenes stuff like with that Motorstorm shit you've conveniently missed out replying to, keys for games can be generated whenever is needed, and so there'll never be a short supply of new digital copies of games, and devs will never miss out on sales. So that's availability cracked, and price will be next. Steam sales already kick the arse of most games you can buy used, and hopefully once DD gets adopted more universally, standard prices will go down, since right now they're full RRP which sucks. A lot of games have been releasing on Steam at a lower price than standard though.

Quote:
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It is completely debatable. It is not a concrete fact.
Lololol, it is. Do you know more about the Industry than the people who work in it? I didn't realise that. Sorry o' Lord of Games, I didn't realise you were among us.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:18 PM   #41
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How can you not figure this out? Even my dog understands from how many times I've said it.
You keep spouting myths as fact, there's nothing to figure out. You act like publishers are going to be these benevolent, altruistic companies as soon as they have customers by the short and curlys and there's no option but to buy digital from them. Standard prices will either stay the same as they are now, or go up. That's obvious.

There's no indication prices will go down, there's no indication things will remain there forever. There's repeatedly been stuff pulled off PSN, not just Motorstorm, like Brave Story New Traveler due to "licensing" issues - and that's within the same gen. So the idea that stuff is going to be around forever is ludicrous.

As for used games, they don't hurt the industry or it would have collapsed in the 80s. The idea is just propoganda.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:18 PM   #42
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If they do this 1 console game per console. we all know it's just going to get hacked and pirated all to hell.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:21 PM   #43
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Indeed .. I'm so glad I've bailed on console .

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Quote:
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Sony removed them as downloads without explanation. That's exactly the kind of control I don't want in publishers hands.
Are you going to respond to the reason they removed them?

Seem perfectly reasonable to me .. Or should they be made to allow the Hack loop hole . How dare they use the power to stop hacks.

Give it a few months once the loop hole is gone from the code it will be back online . Where's your issues with that ? Or where they bad examples on your part?
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:26 PM   #44
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Are you going to respond to the reason they removed them?

Seem perfectly reasonable to me .. Or should they be made to allow the Hack loop hole . How dare they use the power to stop hacks.

Give it a few months once the loop hole is gone from the code it will be back online . Where's your issues with that ?
My point is that with DD, games can come and go whenever the publisher decides, whether consumers want it to or not. This idea that "with digital, games will be around forever" is simply not true.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:29 PM   #45
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Hurt isn't the same thing as destroy. If I punch you in the face I've hurt you, but I've not killed you. used games hurt the industry but don't destroy it. And as I've said for, hmmm let's see now... the fourth time now, I disagree with the original guy saying it would.

And why are you bringing up licensing issues when it's got fuck all to do with used games? That's got nothing to do with the Industry at all even, that's a little something called the Law. Heard of that? It's pretty big right now. You can't just use a game and do whatever you want with it, there's Laws to stop that happening.

GOG.com is a perfect indication that games can be around forever new; so is all the games on the Wii Store and shit like that. I can buy a brand new copy of Baldur's Gate right now, but for old console games of the same time, that's literally impossible unless you buy digitally. I bought Super Mario Bros 3 on the Wii ages ago; I invite you to go out and get a new copy of it.

I don't know why you're spouting out that games won't remain forever in digital form when the only way to buy old games right now is digitally. Publishers and developers make more money keeping the games digitally available new. Actually, they don't make more money, they simply make money; they get nothing from used stuff. Hate them all you like but like all businesses they like to make money, and this makes them money. In what crazy Einhander world do you think they'd pull games willy nilly for no reason? Every game you've mentioned being pulled has been because of some problem that required them to be removed basically. If Sony didn't remove those games because of that little loophole I'd say they were crazy.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have an urgent appointment with a wall and my head.
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