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Old 03-28-2012, 11:18 AM   #1
KingOfSentinels
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Silicon Knights "Second-hand games 'threaten the industry'"

The list of developers coming out and openly opposing used games is increasing by the day. This time it'a Denis Dyack from Silicon Knights (Eternal Darkness, Legacy of Kain).

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Dyack told GamesIndustry.biz: "I would argue that used games actually increase the cost of games. There used to be something in games for 20 years called a tail, where say you have a game called Warcraft that would sell for 10 years. Because there are no used games, you could actually sell a game for a long time, and get recurring revenue for quite a while. Recurring revenue is very key.

"Now there is no tail. Literally, you will get most of your sales within three months of launch, which has created this really unhealthy extreme where you have to sell it really fast and then you have to do anything else to get money," he continued, pointing towards things like post-launch DLC.

"I would argue, and I've said this before, that used games are cannibalizing the industry. If developers and publishers don't see revenue from that, it's not a matter of hey 'we're trying to increase the price of games to consumers, and we want more,' we're just trying to survive as an industry.

"If used games continue the way that they are, it's going to cannibalize, there's not going to be an industry," he added. "People won't make those kinds of games. So I think that's inflated the price of games, and I think that prices would have come down if there was a longer tail, but there isn't."

Dyack suggested the answer could lie in releasing games digitally rather than at retail, hence the reason he's still "very big on cloud computing".
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...as-we-know-it/

All true stuff, and I agree with him, though I think it's Digital distribution moreso than Cloud computing which will save the day. The future! *hugs Steam*
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #2
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Digital distribution moreso than Cloud computing which will save the day
he's right, long term cloud will be the way forward, not DD. Why bother distributing anything if you don't need to.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:36 AM   #3
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I only say that because DD is the closer one to being widely accepted. We'll all likely be using digital distribution before Cloud, and so by the time Cloud starts to be widely used, used games will have stopped already because of everyone going digital beforehand. That's what I meant.

If the two were equally viable as we speak then yeah it'd be Cloud who does it, but right now, digital distribution is on the horizon, whereas Cloud Gaming still needs to sort out the kinks. I tried OnLive and it worked but wasn't really good enough to make me even consider dropping physical or digital media.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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I wonder what he'll cry about when they do away with piracy and the only explanation is that his shit just isn't good enough.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:45 PM   #5
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I read that too a while ago and its very worrisome. Though I'm glad devs are finally opening up about it. Videogames as a creative medium are dying a slow death. Ofcourse there are still some creative and original games being made and ofcourse there is an indie scene but on average what is currently released is either recycled garbage or multiplayer. It's really sad so much creativity is going to waste simply because it isn't profitable anymore.

For instance the only game I'm slightly looking forward to is RE6. And even that game seems for the most part just a straight up conventional third person shooter. Other than that, nothing.

If used games need to go then they need to go. Make the games worthless through codes and DLC other than the one who originally purchased it. They already do it now with activation passes for multiplayer but for my part they can do it for the entire game.

After all, its always better than having no games to play at all anymore. Well, other than Angry Birds and Call of generic FPS XXV: More Guns.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #6
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I just bought Eternal Darkness used off Ebay about a month ago! But it's not the first time I owned it, bought it new at launch.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #7
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People from Saint Catharines are pretty much functionally retarded.

He is a prime example of it. None of what he said is remotely true.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #8
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When you think of things like poor network infrastructure (I'm looking at you Time Warner cable), data caps from some ISPs, and the wealth of other issues that may cause slow or completely unavailable internet connections, cloud gaming just doesn't hold up. Think about multiplayer games, cloud gaming will only make any lag issues worse.

Of course with digital downloads you will want to ensure users have enough storage for any digital downloads, and that could get troublesome. Gamers aren't going to enjoy having to rotate which games they have downloaded and have to redownload and delete titles due to limited storage space.

I think more developers will look at a combination of the two. So when you purchase a game, it is added to your account. You can then choose at any time to play it through the cloud, or download it and play it locally. This way you can download games you play often or new releases and avoid network issues that could prevent play, but you still have the majority of your library available to you at any time to play instantly. You don't have to constantly redownload and delete games, but you also don't get completely cut off when your ISP acts dumb.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander View Post
People from Saint Catharines are pretty much functionally retarded.

He is a prime example of it. None of what he said is remotely true.

what part was wrong .. if you think hes wrong about dlc and cloud your living in the 1950s mate.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #10
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Used games do not and have never "cannibalised" the industry.

If it was going to kill the industry, it would have done it years ago.

How many of these developers spouting this rubbish had used games as kids?

100% of them I bet.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #11
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My opinion is that what the SK guy is saying is short sighted.

Most money customers get from used games go back into buying more games and im pretty sure everyone prefers to get a brand new copy than a used copy.

I also think that he isnt pointing the finger at the right people. The industry changed to extremes in the last gen. Reviewers are extreme and that made customers extreme aswell. Only the latest hot game matters, only the game with the latest technology matters, everything else is trash. Would be good to reflect how we got to that and how that can change back to what it was. The widespread of the social networks might have something to do with it. The more you hype the now, the less people care about the then.
Therefore it's also difficult to believe that these tail sales and used sales are complete consequence of one another... i personally think they are related to pricing strategies.

To me, it looks more like some beeing bummed they dont have a piece of the cake. But for me everyone would profit if they were willing to give a part of the money to the customer that sells the used game just like the retailer does. That way they would be entitled to a new share when the game got re-selled. The problem is, they are only interested in receiving more, but forget its the retailers that are giving money to the customers for their goods.

I hear them say they just want to survive, but im sure the average Joe that sells his games for money just wants to survive aswell.


If this post makes you angry... learn to deal with different opinions.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einhander View Post
Used games do not and have never "cannibalised" the industry.

If it was going to kill the industry, it would have done it years ago.

How many of these developers spouting this rubbish had used games as kids?

100% of them I bet.
that is true .. but you said "None of what he said is remotely true" ...
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #13
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Yep, he didn't say anything that was wrong. All you can disagree with is the severity of it, but it's still a problem no matter how people try and ignore it. I don't think it'll destroy the industry like he says, I agree with Einhander on that, but in how sales work he is bang on and he's right about the fix too. Digital distribution is a way to solve all of this, since games don't stop being available on the platforms. I'm sure all of us here have bought old games used, it's all you can do really. Now if they weren't used and on Steam or something, the developer would still actually be profiting from it. Win win for both parties.

I've bought games on GOG and Steam where it's impossible to get a new boxed copy, and in doing so, I gave money to the developer and supported them. Digital distribution for teh win! It's also cheaper for the developers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nem
To me, it looks more like some beeing bummed they dont have a piece of the cake.
A piece of their cake. This isn't a case of them wanting more money and being greedy, it's a case of them not wanting to be cheated out of money that they're deserved. When you buy their game, they deserve to see some of that money, and I don't know how anyone can think otherwise. And this isn't a small amount of money either that we're talking about, how many used copies are sold in a game's lifetime is a hefty sum.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels View Post
A piece of their cake. This isn't a case of them wanting more money and being greedy, it's a case of them not wanting to be cheated out of money that they're deserved. When you buy their game, they deserve to see some of that money, and I don't know how anyone can think otherwise. And this isn't a small amount of money either that we're talking about, how many used copies are sold in a game's lifetime is a hefty sum.
then the same logic should apply to EVERYTHING you sell or buy second hand. cars, books, dvds, clothes, toys etc etc etc ?? have fun enforcing that at the local carboot sale .. you cant have a rule for one and not for all

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Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels View Post

I've bought games on GOG and Steam where it's impossible to get a new boxed copy, and in doing so, I gave money to the developer and supported them. Digital distribution for teh win! It's also cheaper for the developers.
.
but isn't DD pure evil???
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels View Post
A piece of their cake. This isn't a case of them wanting more money and being greedy, it's a case of them not wanting to be cheated out of money that they're deserved. When you buy their game, they deserve to see some of that money, and I don't know how anyone can think otherwise. And this isn't a small amount of money either that we're talking about, how many used copies are sold in a game's lifetime is a hefty sum.
DD is being introduced so consumers do not have the option of buying used at all.

This is being done out of sheer arrogance and greed on the belief that the gaming industry is more special than any other industry and because of the myth that used games "destroy" the industry because the developers don't get paid over and over and over again.

Give control over to publishers for pricing everything, with no control over what I pay for? No thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSentinels View Post
I've bought games on GOG and Steam where it's impossible to get a new boxed copy, and in doing so, I gave money to the developer and supported them. Digital distribution for teh win! It's also cheaper for the developers.
How many of the developers on GOG are still in business? Maybe 50%? All you're doing is supporting GOG's servers - which is fine, but don't act like it's some altruistric gesture towards the people who made the games, because a good chunk of those people probably aren't seeing that money.
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