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Old 09-02-2011, 03:55 AM   #421
Alucard
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So basically what you're saying is I was 100% right and you are buying me dinner. SOUNDS GOOD!
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:58 AM   #422
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NM, this one is better!

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Old 09-02-2011, 04:28 AM   #423
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Thats why Thor is the best
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:09 AM   #424
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Alucard, Drunken Savior argued under the table. It really sounds like you were too busy being mad about how cool Xavier was to understand the thematic depth of the movie.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:01 PM   #425
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If you both think that movie had depth then its no surprise jersey shore is one of the highest rated shows on US tv.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:16 PM   #426
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You missed what I siad. I said magnetos reason for going all anti christ had nothing to do with the plot. That was Shaws reasoning, not Magnetos. Before that Magneto had been instantly accepted into the little mutant group for the government. Treated quite well. It was only after the beach incident that he suddenly turned. It was too easy, too forced, especially for a complex character like him. I mean think about it.. He had this life of hardship and suddenly he came across these people who accepted him, liked him, brought him in, gave him purpose, a figure of authority, made a BFF in Xavier who could feel his emotions like noone else. Who knew him inside out. Then BOOM! You're a villain.
Um....

So your theory is that he thought Shaw was a regular human who murdered his mother, then after they save humans from nuclear war, the humans turn around and try and extreminate the entire group of mutants, and Magneto's turn was too easy?

Not really.
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Old 09-02-2011, 12:40 PM   #427
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Think about it. Human killed his mum. No way in hell did boy magneto know shaw had powers. No way. So GERMAN HUMANS he hated, which is proven by him killing them mercilessly, and he wasnt too fond of humans over all, this being proven by his zero compassion for the bank manager, who even after telling him where shaw was magneto still hurt him. Nothing here so far says he was a victim because of his power. Germans were killing everybody that was a jew, power or not.

He makes friends with others during his fight, humans and mutants both helping. Come the end theres ONE moment when the humans fire on them because they're mutants, JUST ONE MOMENT, and you're telling me this isnt too easy? You must be joking.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:02 PM   #428
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He definitely hated humans from the point that his mom died. He was just on the X-Men team in order to please Charles and try to get info on Shaw, but he obviously still felt like an outsider and didn't care too much for the other mutants at that point. His distrust of humans, combined with Shaw's final argument, which appealed to him, *and* the human military turning on them at the end led him to embrace the dark side and give up on Charles' idea of getting along with regular folk. It's a very organic evolution, and not at all forced like you seem to be implying.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:34 PM   #429
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He definitely hated humans from the point that his mom died. He was just on the X-Men team in order to please Charles and try to get info on Shaw, but he obviously still felt like an outsider and didn't care too much for the other mutants at that point. His distrust of humans, combined with Shaw's final argument, which appealed to him, *and* the human military turning on them at the end led him to embrace the dark side and give up on Charles' idea of getting along with regular folk. It's a very organic evolution, and not at all forced like you seem to be implying.
Exactly.

If Alucard had just stuck to "The movie mirrored the Lee/Kirby stuff or Simonson stuff really well and X-Men FC didn't", I could totally understand that, but your arguments picking apart X-Men make no sense.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:06 PM   #430
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You know this is how super villains are created. You argue with me, you piss me off, I come through your window while you sleep and kill you and your whole family. Is that what you want? Is that what you want to create?! Cause I can make a mask motherfucker!


ps. he hated germans, not humans. Unless theres something about jews I dont know about.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:39 PM   #431
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Think about it. Human killed his mum. No way in hell did boy magneto know shaw had powers. No way. So GERMAN HUMANS he hated, which is proven by him killing them mercilessly, and he wasnt too fond of humans over all, this being proven by his zero compassion for the bank manager, who even after telling him where shaw was magneto still hurt him. Nothing here so far says he was a victim because of his power. Germans were killing everybody that was a jew, power or not.
Erik believes that humanity fears those who are different and their reaction to this fear is prejudice. He lived it during the Holocaust. He saw it in the CIA (Charles and I find the mutants, not humans). And he saw it happen during the Cuban Missile Crisis. His turn from Erik into the villain Magneto was fueled by his life experiences of witnessing humanity's reaction to difference. He doesn't want mutants to suffer the same prejudices that he has witnessed others being subjected to.

Honestly, your point that "since Erik didn't know Shaw was a mutant, therefore it makes no sense for him to distrust humanity" doesn't hold any water. It's as ludicrous of an argument that since Shaw had a mustache, Erik hates all people with mustaches. Mustaches or nationalities do not really matter here, it's all about human nature in Erik's eyes. Shaw's nationality (German) really holds little importance. He hates humanity's nature to fear what they don't understand and, in response, to become prejudice towards them. Did you not understand that when you saw the movie?
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:07 PM   #432
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Like I said before, I understood the movie and the points you made were obvious. What I would have prefered were more moments in the movie where he got screwed over for being a mutant, then it would of felt better for him to turn. The holocaust cant be used as an example. He wasnt feared, they wanted to use him as a weapon. He was completely wanted. Polar opposite of the end of the film where they were attacked. It started off with him hating the germans, not humanity. He distrusted people, humans and mutants alike, that was all. Even Xavier had to convince him to come with them and he only did because he could get into his head. Anyway you can be happy with the film thats cool. I wanted more from it.
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:12 PM   #433
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Apparently they aren't because you keep harping that the holocaust didn't affect Erik's development. If you understand the movie and my points, why is the holocaust....a major event where prejudice was at its worst....an event Erik lived through....and a scene in the movie....not appropriate in this discussion?

It's a major part of Erik's history and motivation. Just because he was wanted doesn't mean he wanted to be in a concentration camp. Obviously he wasn't having a good time there. By your logic above, victims shouldn't hate their rapists because....rapists want them there?

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Old 09-02-2011, 11:44 PM   #434
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You know this is how super villains are created.
Run for your lives! It's the Tasmanian Terror!
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:33 PM   #435
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Just saw X-men first class. Awesome. Very entertaining movie. I honestly wasn't bored a single minute during the entire 2 hours.

My impression of Magneto though is that the character still could have gone either way, even after experiencing the horrors of the concentration camps and the absolute worst humanity has to offer. He never was, or were, an 'evil' character. Just deeply traumatized, and righteously so given what he has been through. However what I think really and permanently drove him over the edge was Shaw shooting his mother, that can really be considered the defining moment Magneto's own human side died as well.

When I still read the comics I always found Magneto one of the more interesting characters. I guess the conflicted types and their inner struggles fascinate more and are easier to identify with than the straightforward 'good' or 'evil' ones.
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