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Old 04-16-2012, 05:35 AM   #271
KingOfSentinels
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Bit of a long-shot. But look at the current generation of people right now; iPhones everywhere. Apps. Online access. Downloading games. This is not some alien feature for people, most people do it all the time, everyday. I was sat on the train yesterday as some kid showed his mother how to download 'DrawSomething' on the iPhone. Kindles are bought everyday and digital books are too. A lot of the time people are just scared of going out of their comfort zone and refuse to try or accept new technology, and that's where the hard bit lies since human beings love to be stubborn about what they do. And once they do finally give it a fair shot, everytime basically they realise it actually works out fine, and this will be exactly the same case. Because they're so stubborn, sometimes the industries needs to take the initiative and give them a push in the right direction.

When Steam first started people hated it. They did what Origin did and forced it onto people who had Valve games. I didn't like it either, was not a fan of it. Years later, everyone loves it. I love it, I gave it a fair shot and discovered it was great, and slowly weaned myself off physical media basically, though I still buy boxed games every now and then. Origin first came out to loads of hate, and now no one talks about it. Basically every new piece of innovation in most Industries has a shaky start as the kinks are ironed out and people slowly adopt it; just have to make it through there and everything will be great on the other end. Steam has proven DD works, and the smartphones have proven it can be accepted by everybody. Put those together and there's no reason we can't get digital distribution working perfectly on consoles as long as it's kept simple for people. The only hurdle is attracting the ignorant majority of people who see something new and run in the opposite direction.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:40 AM   #272
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you missed itunes for music
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:31 AM   #273
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downloading a Iphone game that is a few hundred MB at the biggest can't really be compared to downloading every single console game you want to play that are around 5-8gbs each this generation and will no doubt get bigger with the next.

Agarest in the PS3 is something like 13gbs and can you imagine downloading MGS4 yikes!!
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:43 AM   #274
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pre loading ala steam, starting a week or so before release .. you still get it day 1.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:43 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastx View Post
Dude, Obsidian's a developer, and thus whatever they think or have to say doesn't matter. Just read the last page or two of this thread for proof!
I'm not talking about developers/publishers having issues with used game sales or not etc. I'm saying the view of Obsidian as a low level developer is unjustified.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:53 AM   #276
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pre loading ala steam, starting a week or so before release .. you still get it day 1.
Yeah that can be handy but it doesn't change the size of the game it just means you can start downloading earlier. The size is the problem. Then again it won't happen next generation so by then who knows how good connections might be.

But at the moment the PS3 is a nightmare to download onto for me it goes so slowly the XB360/PC no provlem but the PS3 is slow.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:59 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escaflowne2001
downloading a Iphone game that is a few hundred MB at the biggest can't really be compared to downloading every single console game you want to play that are around 5-8gbs each this generation and will no doubt get bigger with the next.

Agarest in the PS3 is something like 13gbs and can you imagine downloading MGS4 yikes!!
They can be compared very easily, the process is still exactly the same regardless of what is being downloaded; it's about wondering if people will adopt digital distribution which has always been the worry, and it's been proven that they will with how huge the app market has kicked off, and Steam has proven people are willing to download entire games too, it's not like no one downloads games for it. It's not out of the question, very far from it. Everything points to digital distribution being very successful on the consoles. The only reason it's not been successful is people un-willing to adopt it or even attempt to try it, but the consoles will hit a much bigger market with it than Steam does. But you're not being thrown in the deep-end remember, next generation will still likely have physical media along with digital as people get weaned off physical media. Maybe even the next generation will too, but digital is coming, just as it has for every other Industry, people need to start realising this and stop being stubborn about accepting change.

People see new technology and constantly pick holes in it because they're worried about adopting something entirely new and tend to ignore the benefits of it and the fact that things get better. Steam itself constantly improves, in the beginning it being a horrible mess with constant crashes and the like. And so digital distribution on consoles will as well, especially if it becomes industry priority #1 which it would be once the console crowd starts to head towards it.

Gamers just need to be willing to accept change and it'll work. It won't be a flawless transition, nothing ever is or will be, but it will work once it's been tweaked and improved upon. Steam has shown that digital distribution for full, retail games can be accepted by people, and that's a completely optional platform and has been growing in size consistently every year it's been released as a digital distribution platform. The iPhone and 'app' crazy generation, e-readers, etc. has shown that downloading content and being connected constantly can be adopted by the majority, it's not alien and it's not scary, and that can surely be transferred to gaming. Together they show a bright potential future for digital distribution on the consoles, rather than the horrid, desolate wasteland that some people like to think it'll be like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escaflowne2001
Yeah that can be handy but it doesn't change the size of the game it just means you can start downloading earlier. The size is the problem. Then again it won't happen next generation so by then who knows how good connections might be.

But at the moment the PS3 is a nightmare to download onto for me it goes so slowly the XB360/PC no provlem but the PS3 is slow.
Yeah, connections will get better on both the user's end and the operator's; Steam servers have been increased to handle more content uploading as demand increased, and Microsoft and Sony, and I guess Nintendo, servers will likely do the same. Even Ninty are approaching digital distribution now. Games will start being more efficiently compressed to be delivered digitally, and average connection speed in countries increase over time as well. BT has BT Infinity now, and I think Virgin is speeding up their Internet now aren't they? In years and years time my 40mb/s speed could be quite average and I can download an average sized game in no time at all.



Reply took a while because I got distracted by mangos. Delicious mangos...
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:01 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Escaflowne2001 View Post
Yeah that can be handy but it doesn't change the size of the game it just means you can start downloading earlier. The size is the problem. Then again it won't happen next generation so by then who knows how good connections might be.

But at the moment the PS3 is a nightmare to download onto for me it goes so slowly the XB360/PC no provlem but the PS3 is slow.
ps3 nw/servers are shit that is the reason buy cheap shit get shit performance etc ..

will not be next gen thats pure DD .. dear god no .. pipes are not big enough .. gen after next maybe
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:04 AM   #279
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But why didn't the PSP go sell then? If it worked it was going to phase out the normal PSP and be all digital, they even gave away 5 free games. There wasn't a reason NOT to get one!

I've asked this question before, but only eastx answered it. We already have the choice for retail and digital on consoles, have you bought the games that you could digital before retail?

But you can't compare the apple itunes and app stores to console gaming... cause they aren't and most of their stuff is like .99 cents to 2.99, with some odd exceptions being higher in price, but they still dwarf console games in price! Plus, digital ebook readers can get lots of free books and it is handy with textbooks for school. Plus apple stuff is also cause people are using it other than a gaming device. We are talking about a console that is meant for gaming only, sure with extra features, but you are buying it for one main reason. People don't buy the iphone to play games.

Steam is different, the UI, the support, and the features are what make people buy games from steam.
You don't hear games for windows brag about their sales like steam does or other DD services. Gabe knows what PC gamers want and he delivered it.

The whole issue at hand is people buy used games cause they are cheaper than retail, even if it is only 5 dollars. The game industry doesn't even seem to realized this and try to solve the problem with helping people who want to spend less on games.

Again, there are ways that won't cost a thing but bring in revenue for the companies without hurting the consumer, IN GAME ADS! This needs to be done with all games now. Movies and TV shows do it for a reason. It cuts down costs. Very easy to do and can change ads easily whenever they want by making a dynamic small window during the menu screen or multiplayer screens, just put them in spots that doesn't interrupt the gameplay. You can have picture ads or video ads that are like commercials. Call of Duty could easily do this and use small amounts of bandwidth. Just put a little window that can be muted in the corner of the multiplayer lobby screen and let it view ads! this could actually bring in more revenue than digital only games, or you can do both and make even more money! crappp.. I'm giving them ideas!

It's how google made it's billions. I beat large companies like pepsi, old navy, and they could use themselves to promote other games that activision will release to help sell games that have less marketing to them. Most large companies would easily pay 1 million dollars to put ads up in a call of duty game.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:05 AM   #280
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man, i'd rather digital - i move apartments 1-2 times a year, and i don't like carrying around physical media like cd, blurays and games

i also like to travel, so having my games on cloud is an awesome thing - kinda why i love iphone apps at the moment


[edit] reply was following from KoS' reply, but got distracted by more mangos
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:08 AM   #281
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Quote:
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man, i'd rather digital - i move apartments 1-2 times a year, and i don't like carrying around physical media like cd, blurays and games

i also like to travel, so having my games on cloud is an awesome thing - kinda why i love iphone apps at the moment


[edit] reply was following from KoS' reply, but got distracted by more mangos
you know what you need then? Buy a mobile home! Problem solved!


I would like to say, I don't question Digital downloads. Obviously, I use them, I'm questioning Consoles being digital only. I'm saying it won't work cause their audience are different compared to PC gaming. Plus PC gamers know how to get a back up to save.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:26 AM   #282
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We already have the choice for retail and digital on consoles, have you bought the games that you could digital before retail?
Consoles aren't really digital distributors as of yet; they can just about handle it, but are not at all designed for the process, and it's why Steam is so much better because it is designed and improved primarily for digital distribution and so does it better than a platform with full retail game digital distribution as more of an after-thought. It could be, and will be, more explored and improved, but servers for Microsoft and Sony aren't really up to scratch as of right yet.

Next generation will keep physical but will try and entice you to buy them digitally instead. This pre-order bonuses might end up being download only, for example, or extra DLC if you buy it digitally. Just these nice sort of incentives to make you want to nab the game digitally rather than in retail. Maybe even artbook PDFs and the sort which CD Projekt do, I got a dandy Witcher artbook from gog.com when buying from them. There's a lot of potential things that can be done. If you pre-order Max Payne 3 on Steam, you get Max Payne 1 and 2 for free. Deals like that. Copies of games are limitless digitally and so deals such as this are easier to do because you won't run out, like what happened with that game store sale in Australia where they ran out really quickly.

And I always buy digital now over retail. Unless a retail copy is cheap as hell in a sale or something, I always buy off Steam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spider-prime
The whole issue at hand is people buy used games cause they are cheaper than retail, even if it is only 5 dollars. The game industry doesn't even seem to realized this and try to solve the problem with helping people who want to spend less on games.
Nope, it's the distributors where the problem lies. They price them lower no matter what to make you buy used; Deus Ex released at 40, as do most new games, and could be bought used for about 35, but Portal 2 released at just 30 and could be bought used for 25. That's what I mean when I say the retailers really aren't helping us out at all in this regard, and the Industry can't do anything. They sell our games, we need to keep them happy. But once digital distribution kicks off, Gamestop might start pricing their stuff much lower to stay competitive when they can't rely on used sales.

We could charge less, and with the example above Valve always do, but that doesn't stop the retailers from charging even less and continuing to cost developers quite a lump of revenue by pushing used games to the forefront and making them a much better offer than new. And so cue additional content for new copies in order to stop that happening.

The important thing is, digital distribution works. For apps, for music, books, and even full retail games, digital distribution has been adopted by many and is working perfectly. I love Steam, I have no qualms with it in the slightest. The only hurdle currently facing the Industry is how to attract people to digital distribution. Humans are a stubborn bunch.

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Originally Posted by spider-prime
I'm saying it won't work cause their audience are different compared to PC gaming.
We're all gamers. We buy a game to play a game. That's universal. PC gamers might like to mess around with mods and the like, but the primary reason for buying every game is to play it. You are right that PC gamers likely adopted digital distribution sooner because we're more advanced, maybe is the word? Build our own rigs, need to know about settings and shit. Consoles are less involved. Or maybe we adopted it because of Steam and how good that was. Lots of reasons why.

But that isn't to say console players can't handle it. Steam isn't difficult, you buy a game on the store and then click 'Install', or 'Play', and it'll either download it or play it. Not a very tricky system and it's pretty much exactly what you do on iPhones and other devices right. Not alien or weird or taxing at all, and could be easily adopted.

Again, people just need to adopt it. The next generation, and maybe the next, will likely be the two generations which wean people off physical media. No one is ever going to go instantly NO PHYSICAL MEDIA, or if they do they're really going too far too fast, like what Sony did with the PSP Go.

You all keep talking while I'm typing. *shakes fist*
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:37 AM   #283
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Meh, Digital Distribution is okay. Though I'd rather it become more central when faster internet, more reliable and affordable data centers come into place first. And for Australia, that's going to take awhile.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:44 AM   #284
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That is my point tho, people want cheaper. I don't care about saving 5 dollars, I still buy brand new, cause I also like to know that I'm the only user of this game so not to have any problems like scratches on the disc. But other people don't really care as long if the game works. But look at retail games on PSN, they are more expensive than the retail version in stores, so it's no wonder people want to buy retail still. But there isn't any guarantee that PSN and XBLA will do sales like steam or even some stores do, the best I've seen for PSN was 50% off certain games and DLC. But I've been to stores that had sales for 90% off! I've bought brand new games from Staples for 3 dollars! Dead Rising 2 on the PS3 was one of them.

I think it was easily adopted on the PC cause it didn't do much different than retail copies of PC games. Get the game, install it, wait 3 hours for it to finish, get the CD key ready. In the end, you didn't need the CDs once it was installed.
Steam made this process a lot easier and if there was a patch, it updated automatically. But Steam lets you backup your games to reinstall later if you delete them from your HDD.

This is my biggest gripe of DD, which only a few services solved. Backing up my game. I want to be able to play it in the far future if I can, I don't want to have to hunt down a pirated version. But Gog.com does it the best since they just give us the exe file to install the whole game.

BUT, consoles DD doesn't want us doing this, cause then it could lead to sharing, which is why also they will make you have to be online for you to play your games. Which can create problems for lots of people. Power outages, your ISP has a outage also, you went to a place that doesn't have the internet like say a cabin in the woods.

PC developers have learned that DRMs didn't work and most have stopped using it cause it actually caused more pirated than it was going to prevent, only the bigger publishers force them to put it in, like EA.

I'm off to bed now, it's early morning here and I've been up all night and it's the orthodox easter....... my parents will beat me if I don't go over for supper.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:51 AM   #285
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PSN and XBL are shit for sales
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