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Old 06-11-2012, 07:21 AM   #31
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I'd still say a MacBook, since they're about to announce a new line in a few days. Or even an iPad. iPad's amazing.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:32 AM   #32
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If you want to pay premium price for something worse, sure, get a MacBook.

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Right now I'm semi pre-occupied with packing/finding a job so I'll be sitting down in July to decide.
You might consider picking one up whenever the sales are on. I don't know when stuff goes on sale over where you live, might be different time from over here, but sometimes it's worth putting off buying something till you get Summer sales, Christmas sales or something like that. Can grab yourself a pretty nifty little thing for a low price if you're patient.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:04 AM   #33
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Especially if you've got other Mac products. It all just works so well. And you know, putting games aside, I don't know what's so much worse about a Mac. I couldn't go back to Windows; all the troubleshooting and viruses and slowdown, etc. couldn't do it.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:07 AM   #34
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Nothing is really worse about them. They each have perks. But since a Windows is so much more cheaper and you can get better hardware in them at an affordable price, for general computing they're generally the better choice. If you're going into design or video editing, that's when you more consider the Mac, if you've got the cash.

Though having said that I'm a 3D designer and use Windows.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:19 AM   #35
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If you get that many viruses to worry about you clearly visiting the wrong kind of websites. I don't think I've ever gotten a virus on my computers/laptops.

I've got an HP laptop at the moment and it did have a overheat problem until i blew the fans out with compressed air and now it works like new again.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:26 AM   #36
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I've had about three Windows computers. And every one has fucked up with constant lag, slowdown, malware and viruses. Never had that on a Mac. I think there is a simplism and ease of use about Mac that makes it better for general computing- but you pay a lot more for it. And if you're gonna play games, you're probably definitely better with PC.

I read something somewhere that said PC Users spend on average 40 hours a year troubleshooting, Mac users spend 4.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:36 AM   #37
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Most complaints about Windows aren't right. Like you can turn off all the pop-ups, as I have, and if you've got a decent anti-virus you'll never get a Virus, even something like AVG Free will protect you perfectly fine. You'd have to really try and get one. I've literally not had a Virus in my entire life on any PC. It's quite an easy thing to accomplish.

Fact is, Windows gets the job done and for a lot cheaper with better hardware. I haven't had any problems with Windows and the 1 Mac I've owned had no problems with that either. Got it loaned to me at a job and it wasn't any better than my Windows laptop in any regard. Both the same, but the Windows was about half the price and was still a bit faster. Which was one easier to use, I'd say both the same, but advanced features were less locked away than they are in Windows.

People should start just looking after their stuff if it keeps breaking...
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:08 AM   #38
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Most complaints about Windows aren't right. Like you can turn off all the pop-ups, as I have, and if you've got a decent anti-virus you'll never get a Virus, even something like AVG Free will protect you perfectly fine. You'd have to really try and get one. I've literally not had a Virus in my entire life on any PC. It's quite an easy thing to accomplish.

Fact is, Windows gets the job done and for a lot cheaper with better hardware. I haven't had any problems with Windows and the 1 Mac I've owned had no problems with that either. Got it loaned to me at a job and it wasn't any better than my Windows laptop in any regard. Both the same, but the Windows was about half the price and was still a bit faster. Which was one easier to use, I'd say both the same, but advanced features were less locked away than they are in Windows.

People should start just looking after their stuff if it keeps breaking...

Or as I read it: Windows is just as good as Mac if you download this additional software and take all of these steps. For example, download AVG and you'll never get a virus. Work your way through the settings and you can stop pop ups. Sure you don't need all of this extra trouble on a Mac, but if you just do this on Windows then it's fiiiiine.

Furthermore, Windows gets the job done, and it's cheaper. Basically, it's Mac without the bells and whistles.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:16 AM   #39
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Well... yeah. You take about 20 - 30 seconds out of your life to disable the pop-ups and download an anti-virus and you're golden, it's not that hard. And then you wind up with something better and considerably cheaper.

It's funny when Mac users hate on Windows, but then use a Windows emulator. Lol if you think we even consider emulating MacOS on our PCs. I've never wanted to do something and been limited by Windows, and in my eyes that's a fine OS. I don't use most of its features and I can guarantee I wouldn't, and you don't, use every feature MacOS has too. If I could get a stripped out Windows that'd be perfect, couldn't give a shit about 'bells and whistles'.

MacOS is more secure by default than Windows because of it being built on Unix, which is awesomely secure, but since, as of 2012 at least, Macs only being ~10% of the total used OS and Windows almost being ~75% in total, obviously it's more worth the time to design viruses for Windows PC. Easier and better. But an anti-virus will sort it out no problem.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:25 AM   #40
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1. The menu bar

This is a love-hate thing, but I personally think the top of the screen is the perfect place for a menu bar. On a practical level, this position means that windows can be simpler — no need for a fiddly menu bar at the top of each window. Microsoft have half acknowledged that menu bars don’t belong in the window — look at IE or Office. On Mac, you still get the menu, which is great for power users, but it’s in a consistent place that doesn’t clutter up your windows. Maybe I like it best because I’m nostalgic for the Commodore Amiga ;-)

2. Back to Mac

I have Mobile Me. I also have an Apple Airport Express router. My iMac at home has sharing turned on (which is nothing special — it takes literally two clicks to turn screen sharing on). Incredibly, when I’m at work and I fire up my MacBook Pro laptop, I can see my home computer in the little panel on the left of Finder. With no bother at all, I can connect to it to access files and remote control the desktop, just as if it were there next to me. I know Windows has remote desktop, which is great, but that doesn’t help you if you need to quickly connect to your computer at home — the magic here is the way that it automatically configures everything to give me full and transparent access over the internet, all via my Mobile Me account.

3. Multi-touch

This is as much about the Apple hardware engineers as it is about OS X (and in particular, the engineers they acquired when they bought an innovative little company called Fingerworks), but it has to be said that multi-touch support in OS X is nothing short of amazing. Tap with one finger to click. Tap with two fingers to right click. Tap and move three fingers to move icons or select text. Tap and swipe four fingers to quickly show the desktop or all of the windows laid side-by-side. If you haven’t used it, you probably think this sounds a bit weak. If you have used it, you know exactly what I’m talking about. The worst thing about multi-touch on Mac is having to go back to a Windows laptop — you get so used to two and three finger taps that it’s nearly impossible to stop doing it!

4. UNIX and Terminal

This is a geeky inclusion, but as a techie it’s a crucial point: Mac OS X is the only certified UNIX you can get for desktop computers today. Because Linux is very Unix-like, OS X runs pretty much all open source software flawlessly and, of course, it comes with all of the Unix command line tools and a well-built Terminal app for running them (which really puts the Windows command prompt to shame — for one thing, you can resize it horizontally). Microsoft have developed ‘Powershell’ to try and make scripting better on Windows, but it’s no substitute for the simplicity, consistency and sheer versatility of a Unix shell.

5. Built-in PDF reader (and support for creating PDFs from any application)

Not having to install Adobe Acrobat Reader to open PDFs is just fantastic. That PDFs can open instantly and not cause your computer to grind to a halt is actually quite surprising when you first go to Mac from Windows.

6. Spotlight

Spotlight is a little magnifying glass that lives on the far right of the Mac menu bar. It lets you search your Mac, and it works extremely well. For example, I have Mail setup to access my Gmail account, which is brimming over with 7 years worth of emails. I can find literally any email in seconds, using spotlight. It works just as well for files, browser history and even applications. The shortcut key is CMD + space (CMD is Apple’s equivelent of the Window’s key), so it’s always easy to start a new search.

You might think that Windows Search is Spotlight’s equal, but you’d be wrong. Windows Search is improving, but it still isn’t integrated quite as seamlessly as Spotlight, and Windows Search is a resource hog. A real resource hog. Spotlight doesn’t consume 1.3GB of memory on my Mac, whereas Windows Search does on my workstation.

7. iLife (GarageBand, iPhoto, iMovie, iWeb)

These productivity apps are fantastic, and they come for free with every Mac. It means that when you first turn the computer on you actually have a great set of genuinely useful productivity applications to play around with. I love GarageBand, iPhoto is incredibly useful (we use it for my wife’s point-and-shoot, but I prefer Aperture for my dSLR) and iMovie is great too. Being a web developer by trade, I don’t have much use for iWeb, but from what I can tell it works pretty well.

8. Drivers

A few weeks back I needed to connect to a color laser printer for the first time. In OS X, from the standard print window I clicked ‘Add Printer’. There it was, listed. I clicked it. It worked. I was amazed. By comparison, adding the same printer to my Windows 7 64-bit workstation was a real pain. It took a lot of effort, and I almost gave up before I stumbled upon the right download on the HP website.

Anyway, this led to the realization that I simply never have problems with drivers on Mac. And it’s not just printers — because the Mac hardware is so tightly controlled by Apple, OS X includes all of the drivers for everything, from graphics to USB, and things just tend to work.

9. Universal Access

This doesn’t affect me directly, but I am a programmer and I like to think that the software I create is accessible to everyone. However, it’s only thanks to the work of other companies that a blind user, say, can actually interact with my software. Apple have built an incredible system for blind users right in to OS X. It’s called Voice Over, and Austin Seraphin explains how impressive it really is far better than I ever could.

10. Time Machine

Backing up a Mac is as simple as plugging in an external disk and answering ‘Yes’ when OS X asks if you want to use it for Time Machine. From that point on, it’ll take care of everything (assuming you either leave it plugged in or remember to plug it in every now and then). You can use Time Machine to recover files from a point in time (of course), and you can also use it to recover a Mac if you have to install OS X again (like if you have to get a new hard disk fitted). This is exactly how backups should work.

The situation isn’t nearly so simple on Windows — The only people I know who backup their Windows machines are techies and geeks who know about this stuff. A few weeks ago someone posted a question to engadget about the backup software for Windows. You just need to glance at the comments to see that the best solution — Windows Home Server — is no Time Machine.
http://adrianoconnor.net/2011/03/10-...-than-windows/
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:34 AM   #41
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And I could find lots of articles why Windows is better, doesn't really prove your point...

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APC contributor Dan Warne wrote an excellent piece here on 10 reasons why Mac OS X Lion eats Windows for breakfast. And indeed the imagery of a big, bold lion chowing down on... something Windowsy... is an affable image. But do Dan's points tell the whole story? Lets see with 10 points that show how Windows is still ahead of Mac OS X Lion.

1. Start bar

Love it or hate it... well, actually, everyone pretty much loves it. The Start Bar is, some would say, one of the truly original innovations from Microsoft that debuted in Windows 95 and has been with us since. It's evolved in Windows 7 but the primary function remains the same: the place to launch programs through the Start menu, the Taskbar to monitor running programs, and the System Tray for informative widgets. The Mac OS X Dock combines program launcher and taskbar, but it becomes cluttered very quickly with a lot of programs, which if they're not on the Dock need to be launched from an equally cluttered Applications folder instead of easily navigated by menu as with the Start bar. Lion attempts to remedy this with the iOS-stylised Launchpad, but it's simplistic and still not as easy to use.

2. The Taskbar

The Dock is pretty and all, but the Windows 7 Taskbar can have programs pinned to it as with the Dock, whilst maintaining the ability to manage running programs, make use of Jump Lists, and see a thumbnail preview of the window of a program with Aero Peek by just hovering the mouse over its name in the bar. Programs with multiple windows will display all open windows in the preview, and any one of them can be individually closed from th preview. The Mac OS X Dock doesn't come close to this, and even though Expose allows previews, it also takes up the whole screen to do it (and when it comes to Expose, the Alt-Tab switching of Windows is quicker and less intrusive, but that's for another day).

The Windows Taskbar and Aero Preview is leaps ahead of anything on Mac OS X Lion.

3. No global menu

Oh I hate it. And I know you do too. Mac OS X's global menu (simply the Menu bar to Apple) tries to make things simpler for Fisher-price users, with a top menu that changes depending on which application is currently selected. But when you're working with a few programs, and more importantly on a decent sized monitor with a large resolution these days, having to drag the mouse to the top bar and back to access common functions is anti ease-of-use. The global menu was borne of a time before pre-emptive multitasking, when computers only ran one program at a time, but that's ancient history now and Apple hasn't moved with the times (lets not get into those old one-button mice! Thankfully gone, but I digress...)

Making the user spend more time navigating the screen instead of using the app is an impediment -- the easiest to use operating systems are those that get out of your way, not in them.

The problem is compounded if you use multiple monitors, which given how cheap they are these days is a popular option. On Mac OS X Lion programs on a second monitor still have their menus on the main screen's global menu, making for long mouse movements to use functions. Windows, by comparison, has excellent multiple monitor support.

4. Jump Lists

Jump Lists are much more than Mac OS X's Stacks, providing a recently opened files list for any app you right-click on the Taskbar, making it a huge time-saver for accessing the documents you work with on a app-by-app basis. On top of this, Jump Lists let you select a program's common functions specific to the app, for example: launching recently accessed sites, opening an independent tab, or starting private browsing mode for Firefox directly from the Firefox icon in the Taskbar. You can also optionally pin entries directly to a Jump List, and even exchange entries between Jump Lists if two programs work with the same file type. This applies to every app, dependent on the app. It's exactly the type of feature you'd expect Apple to implement, but Microsoft beat it to the punch.

Jump Lists make accessing recent files, common functions, and special tasks for a program a cinch directly from the Taskbar.

5. Windows management

Lion includes the option to resize windows from any edge, finally bringing it up to speed with Windows -- but it still falls far short of Windows' management abilities. As above, Windows 7 has excellent multi-monitor support, and you can maximise a window to any monitor with Windows 7, something Lion can't automatically do. And Aero, which drives the Windows 7 interface, has features like Aero Snap to automatically resize windows based on the edge you drag them to: so you can, for example, compare two documents side by side by dragging them to opposite ends and having them resize to fit the half the screen each automatically.

Similarly, managing running programs from the Windows Taskbar, especially with Aero Peek, is a simple point-and-click affair and while Expose and Mission Control try to make it easier for Mac OS X users, these quickly become messy when you have a lot of programs running, something the Windows Task Bar doesn't suffer thanks to program grouping. Purely from keeping a hold things when it comes to managing lots of programs in this age of multi-application multitasking, Windows wins hands down over Mac OS X Lion.

6. Homegroups

Networking is arguably not the bees knees for many home users, but Windows' Home Group feature makes it possible to share files and devices with other Windows 7 machines automatically, and even stream media. Mac OS X's AirDrop is also automatic, but doesn't allow you to browse. Homegroup still provides options to limit access, selectively share files and folders, or provide read-only access while still removing the hassle of configuring networking or sharing. It's as easy as AirDrop, but more functional.

The key difference with Airdrop is that it can set up an ad-hoc wireless network, but connecting to wireless networks is automated with Windows anyway, as is is automatically joining the available Homegroup. The closest Mac OS X Lion has to Homegroups is Bonjour, which allows you to find shareable resources on the local network for Bonjour supported devices, but this is a shotgun approach as it covers a wide range of services and Homegroups focuses specifically on local LAN sharing.

7. Libraries

Libraries are a great way to group similar file types spread among different folders, and even different devices. For example the Music Library can contain music from your local hard drive, a connected external drive, or even on a remote machine over the network. And you can work on files in the library just as with any other folder. At any time the contents reflect the available resources (so if you remove the external drive, its contents in the Library won't show up until connected again). Further, Libraries are shared by default with your Homegroup, so your Music Library can be automatically available to PCs on the network for playing.

The closest thing Lion has to this is Smart Folders, but these operate off a search term not location and you can't, for example, create a Smart Folder drawing from multiple locations.

8. Maximise actually maximises

Contrary to common sense, the maximise button in Mac OS X doesn't maximise. Or it does. If it's a full moon, and your offering is accepted by the Great Turtlnecked One. It depends on the application, with some programs maximising, some only partially (expanding only vertically for example) or something entirely different, like iTunes which switches to miniplayer view. Mac OS X calls this 'intelligent' zooming -- but why is your OS second guessing you? After years of *cough* feedback, Apple finally changed this in Lion: but it now requires the user to hold the Option key and click. Why the extra step? Why not just do it properly? And why are apps like iTunes allowed to break with consistency? Oh, and lets not get started on the 'X' quit application button that doesn't actually quit, simply closing the window and letting it run in the background, requiring the user to forcibly close a program down from the Dock, or use the Command-Q combination (again, extra steps getting in the way of the user -- see above re: operating systems helping not hindering).

Wait, can it be? Maximise and close buttons actually do what you expect them to do? Only on Windows.

9. Price

To get Mac OS X, you need to buy a Mac, something Dan forgot to mention. Mac hardware costs considerably more than PC hardware, even from big name brands like Dell. When you add the cost of the operating system to the platform to run it, it's much more costly to go Mac OS X, a problem further exacerbated for us in here in Australia thanks to Apple's region-based price discrimination -- Federal Labor MP Ed Husic has even raised this issue more than once in Parliament. Despite Apple recently dropping the price of Apps for the App Store in Australia, we still pay more for apps, music, and Apple hardware than other regions, discrepancies that can't be explained by importing, taxes and distribution costs. If you're an Apple fan, why are you supporting what is a blatant rip off for you and fellow Australians? As the saying goes, a company will charge what the market will bear -- send a message to Apple that its products are overpriced here by not buying until the prices drop, and you won't be fleeced.

10. Games

Yes, Mac OS X has had games in the past. One, perhaps two. And now that Valve has released Steam on Mac and helped port titles across, there's a muc larger catalog to choose from (approximately 240, in point of fact, from Steam). But it's got nothing on Windows. There's over a decade of quality gaming heritage (since DirectX 1 in 1995) on Windows, and all new releases, big or small, come on Windows first and foremost. You're lucky if any of them make it to a Mac port, and even if they do it takes time.

Sure, Macs are good for work but when it comes to playing, Windows is your best option. And between work and play, which would you rather do?

I can hear the cries of 'Bootcamp!', but this requires you purchase Windows in addition to your shiny expensive Mac with Mac OS X, and you're still playing games on Windows -- and if that's the case, why not just buy a Windows PC in the first place and get everything a Mac does and more, with cash left over (thanks to Mac products being overpriced) to buy the games you want to play?

Oh, and for the record, that sign documents feature that Dan mentioned of Mac OS X by holding up a piece of paper with your signature on it to the webcam, is very cool.
http://apcmag.com/top-10-reasons-win...-lion-away.htm

It's not hard to Google search, unlike you I actually know about PCs and don't rely on articles and Wikipedia to make my mind up. Also that guy's points about Mac a lot of them are a bit stupid and stuff Windows can do too, albeit perhaps not as easy but if you want to do it, you can do it.

As I've said, it's all about what you want them for, and Windows has, and currently is, the better for general purpose machines, especially since Windows 7 is actually quite a good little OS now. Not as good as MacOS, granted, I'd kill for a more secure Windows, but it's not bad. Most people who hate Windows are just Mac lovers, whereas I'm completely indifferent to both and prefer it because it suits what I want from a machine better. The fact that I game on my PCs means getting a Mac is utterly pointless.

Macs are much more specialised towards the designer point of view, people who are willing to pay a higher price for it; it's why I got one for free when I begun my job, I'd be expected to use it, but they all use Windows in the offices and for general purpose because, again, it's better for it. We also use it for the highest-end stuff since Mac can't handle heavy rendering without costing thousands each. That's where the premium cost trips it up.

If you've got no intention of diving into the Adobe Creative Suite or Final Cut Pro and other such programs, it's a bit silly to pay such a premium price for something which might serve you worse but will definitely dent your wallet more than needs be.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:43 AM   #42
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Don't get me wrong, I'm totally advocating for Mac here. I know you could find pros for Windows, but I'm highlighting a list that gives reasons why I prefer Mac.

The only real point I dispute with you is that Mac is for specialised users. I'm a general user and couldn't use Windows. When the memory is being drained, you need to figure out why a hundred different programs are automatically running, the viruses and malware, the sheer annoyance of the constant pop ups, the difficulty in uninstalling programs. All of it. Just the annoyance of Windows makes me prefer Mac. Also the way it connects with my other Apple products. I think I can settle with the tagline 'OSX- Windows with the bells and whistles'.

In the end, it is indeed about what you prefer.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:55 AM   #43
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And Windows connects with every other product too, including Apple. My flatmate used to use my computer to sync his iPod with iTunes all the time.

All your problems you had with it could have been solved in little to no time or sound like tiny little nuisances. Like uninstalling programs; you just go to your program list and click Uninstall, don't see how that's difficult but whatever... Nothing can solve a bad experience of course, which is what you had, if I was in your boat I'd probably swear off Windows too, but I'm not, and most people aren't either; I'm in the big boat of Windows working perfectly fine and not once having been a limitation in any way, including in regards to money. I'll never understand people who find Windows complicated like that but not everyone's tech savvy I guess.

I found MacOS no more easy to use than Windows, both were just operating systems, a way for me to open programs and do stuff with, a way to get A to B. Don't care about anything else really. I'd be happy with MS-DOS if I could just open programs and navigate my files with it, don't need bells and whistles.

The price of what little MacOS brings to the table over Windows is just too much when you end up paying more than double the price for the same thing. If you can use Windows, then, it's better for general purpose.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:48 PM   #44
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I'm aware iTunes can connect to an iPod on Windows. I was specifically referring to AirDrop, etc. also, according to the survey I linked earlier I am far from in the minority of people who aren't completely satisfied with Windows, let alone the only person ever.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:13 PM   #45
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Thing is more people use Windows so it's easier to find people who don't like it, and more of the general population i.e. morons use it. So if there's 1000 Mac users and 100 of them hate Mac, but there's 100,000 Windows users and 1000 of them hate Windows, it looks like that, on a glance, more people hate Windows and it'd look that way on a survey, but that's not the case when you look deeper.

It's like when people told me China has more really gifted and talented people than the UK does. They have a much larger population; if you scale down there population to the size of the UK population, the UK actually has more. It's in the same vein as that. Need to take these numbers into consideration when generalising.

As DS also said too, consumer survey's aren't really reliable and it's reasons like above why they aren't.

And again, that's why it comes down to what you want. Pay 300 for a laptop, or pay 800 for a Mac which will do basically the same thing? Windows, specifically 7, has become much more friendly and it's now a good, competitive OS, coupled with superior hardware most of the time. Mac has always catered to designers and editors first, whilst Windows caters more to businesses and homes.
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