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Old 10-28-2004, 11:53 PM   #46
Joe Redifer
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Well I'll take pics of Ninja Gaiden a bit later, but check out these Out Run 2 pics that prove that there is aliasing o'plenty on the Xbox. These pics were taken off of an HDTV running in 16:9 480p. In order to get a 480p picture from the Xbox, you need the best possible connection, which is component video. See:


But now let's get in close. Looky at what the green arrows are pointing at!


Yup, that's aliasing. The resolution is only 480 lines, so there is no way to completely eliminate it at that resolution. In order to get rid of noticable aliasing, you need 720p, 1080i, or better yet 1080p. Yeah!

And just because I like Out Run 2 so much, here is another pic of it in motion! Yay Out Run 2!



Sega kicks ass.
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Old 10-29-2004, 08:22 PM   #47
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OK let's check out Ninja Gaiden, shall we?
First let's look at an official Tecmo Ninja Gaiden render:



This screen is at 1280 x 720, which is the exact resolution of the 720p HDTV format.
Except that Ninja Gaiden does not and can not run in HD. It is limited to 480p. Also
look at the generous amount of anti-aliasing that is not present in the game. Nobody
in the world will be able to play the game on an Xbox and have it look this good.
Enough rambling, let's look at the real game now:


This is a video capture via S-Video I did from the same room as the Tecmo rendered pic
above. Look! It has jaggies! Also, this pic is FULL RES. Look how much cleaner,
bigger, and sharper the above picture is. Not quite as deceitful as the DOAXBV pics, but
still showing the graphics as better than they really are. Notice Ryu does not
reflect in the floor. That's bad graphic design... how could they miss that?


Now back to the digital camera, looking at the bridge. Why does Ryu not have a
shadow here? Anyway, you can see aliasing even in this shot from a digital
camera which is sized less than actual pixel size. But just in case you can't see it, let's
move in:


Yup, that's aliasing alright! No denying it. Tecmo's renders look much cleaner,
smoother, and better than the actual game does. It is also in a much higher resolution
than the game is even capable of running in.

As you can see, renders from game companies are somewhat to very deceitful.

Last edited by Joe Redifer; 10-29-2004 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 10-29-2004, 08:44 PM   #48
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You know, I've played Outrun 2 in the arcades and that even had jaggies, the really screwed up part is that it runs on Sega's Chihiro system. The Chihiro system is not only based off the xbox but is slightly more powerful and it's also xbox compatable, yet Outrun 2, and House of the Dead 2 have a crazy amount of jaggies. The xbox indeed does have aliasing, I don't know why thats such a problem though. S-video, RGB, Progressive Scan and HDTV support gives you a much better picture but stay away if you don't want the truth.
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Old 10-29-2004, 08:51 PM   #49
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Agreed. Although I must say that while only 4:3, House of the Dead III on the Xbox puts out one of the best 480p pictures I've ever seen. And yes, there are jaggies if you look.
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:58 PM   #50
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Yeah this is getting stupid.

I'm not seeing jaggies in Ninja Gaiden or Outrun 2. A person eyes can play tricks on them.

What is jaggy up close might not be jaggy 3 feet away.

This even partains to PS1 games and early ps2 as well not just xbox,

and these Jaggies being pointed are are not on critical places either. Just yesterday I was playing Gaiden and Looking for jaggy spots and found nothing.

Last edited by bemanisuperstar; 10-29-2004 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bemanisuperstar
Yeah this is getting stupid.

I'm not seeing jaggies in Ninja Gaiden or Outrun 2. A person eyes can play tricks on him.
Wow, someone's obviously blind. They're all over, and Joe even pointed them out (See the green arrows)
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:02 PM   #52
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No I'm not blind I just think where he's pointing these things out is pointless.

and taking picture directly from a TV doesn't help.

Screen caps for magazines and Websites are taken in a different manner than they are in his cases and how a Lens will pick up a Screen and how our eyes see them are also different.

Zoom in on these so called "Renders" and I bet you'll find Jaggies too.

Topic over
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:36 PM   #53
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Topic reborn.

You zoom in on the renders and you'll find anti-aliasing a-plenty which the Xbox cannot provide. From everything I have read, the Xbox is capable of only 4x anti-aliasing which will do next to nothing for near-horizontal or near-vertical lines. I can see jaggies across the room.

Bemani, do you really thing these renders are real pics from the real game? How do they get a 1280x720 picture from a 640x480 game? The picture of Dead or Alive X-treme Beach Volleyball barely even looks like the same game at all. Hitomi is MUCH closer to the screen, the water is 100% different than the actual game, and the screen is in a resolution that no game system can generate.
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Old 10-29-2004, 11:53 PM   #54
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When you're viewing the games in motion it's harder to notice these things. But when you take it apart and analyze it, it all makes sense. Anyway, outstanding job Joe. I wouldn't expect any less from somebody with as much technical know-how as you.
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Old 10-29-2004, 11:58 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus4578
When you're viewing the games in motion it's harder to notice these things. But when you take it apart and analyze it, it all makes sense. Anyway, outstanding job Joe. I wouldn't expect any less from somebody with as much technical know-how as you.
Yes I would agree. It nice to see something like this every now and then.
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:03 AM   #56
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If the jaggies in NG are getting to you get a better tv. 480p has twice as many lines of resolution as 480i yet no one has posted a comparison of those.
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:59 AM   #57
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I still think Joe is full of BS.

regardless

I'm off to play more DOA U which HAS NO JAGGIES and looks as good as these so called "renders"
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bemanisuperstar
I still think Joe is full of BS.

regardless

I'm off to play more DOA U which HAS NO JAGGIES and looks as good as these so called "renders"

So you would rather accept a pretty lie, moreso than the not so ugly truth. Bemani, if a 12 year old girl told you she was 19 even though you knew she was 12 you'd still screw her cause you like pretty lies. When your busted for jailbait you'll have no choice but to accept the ugly truth.

"I'm off to go play with little Lisa, who has NO BOOBIES and loooks just as good as these so called 19 year olds."
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:30 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messanic
So you would rather accept a pretty lie, moreso than the not so ugly truth. Bemani, if a 12 year old girl told you she was 19 even though you knew she was 12 you'd still screw her cause you like pretty lies. When your busted for jailbait you'll have no choice but to accept the ugly truth.

"I'm off to go play with little Lisa, who has NO BOOBIES and loooks just as good as these so called 19 year olds."
Because these so called renders are real shots

You people are hopless I explained how these shots are taken and you diddn't Digest it

You'rea ll Hopless

Belive this crap I'm done with this topic
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Old 10-30-2004, 01:03 PM   #60
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They could easily be real shots of the game... just not running on their original hardware.

The screens could be from the game, but rendered at an amazingly high resolution, with anti-aliasing up the wazoo. Does that make them shots of the game? Yes, but it's not what it truly looks like.
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