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Old 01-26-2006, 07:15 PM   #31
Nem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistatee
@Nem:

Community-
If you leave a group halfway in FFXI, or most MMOs for that matter, you begin to gain a bad reputation, and with that it becomes harder to get group. In GW, for what I have seen atleast, it didn't matter, and ontop fo that, you can't recruit new members, since the instance is what you are in. Instead you must "join a new game" and start over. Likewise I'd also liketo take this good oppurtunity to saw, if one person zones, and the whole place gets reset=> GAY.
Ok, its obvious why you cant recruit people in the middle of the mission. Everybody would wait outside until someone left so they only had to kill one enemy and be done with the mission.
People do get a reputation in GW! There are many players but you end up seeing them again at one point or another... The reputation you speak of is very realative has well in other RPG's since you only seem to play with the same persons so much cause you are all at about the same level. But, if you stop playing for a couple of days you will see a whole new set of players that dont know you...
About the whole place getting reset... it makes sense, cause why the hell would you want to reset? I actually hate having to zone with my party in every MMORPG when a high level monster is agroed by the party... i do prefer GW in wich the whole zone is for your party only and with enemies your party can take on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistatee
@Nem:

Uninspired PVP-
FIrst of all, point-and-click PvP is horrible. Second, it in no way matches PvP on say a FFA server in an MMO when an enemy can come from anywhere. Third, PvP feels 100% the same as fighting Mobs, just you switch up some of your abilities to be more eefective. Adrenline did not ever flow through my vains when playing PvP in GW.
First point: point-and-click or not is up to you. Personally i dont use point and click except to pick my target and use my skills. You are gonna tell me: "Oh, but then the other unskilled player will be able to catch up to my pro running!" I say to you, be smarter! You can predict his path so you can just has well get him stuck behind a tree with a quick move and gain enough time to get away and recover while he wonder what the hell happened.
Talking about adrenaline... what class did you play has anyways? Theres lots going on at once in pvp fights and i doubt your adrenaline wasnt poping up unless you really didnt have a clue of what was going on...
Anyways hear yourself... "just you switch up some of your abilities to be more eefective"... you make it sound like a trivial thing! You need a strategy, its not has easy has switching some of the skills... and certainly aint the same has fighting mobs... especially in 8vs8. Team play plays a fundamental part and has good you are doesnt make a difference in the 8vs8 arena, only how good your team is... or how good your guild is! And theres your definition of community: the guild!. The community that helps you and gathers together to fight against other guilds where team work is the main trait!

Also, btw with recent updates the enemy AI became much smarter and you wont be able to use the same strategies in PvE that you use in PvP. Mostly area of effect spells now make the mobs scatter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistatee
@Nem:

Levels-
When i said "99 in D2 in 1-3 days, same as GW" I ment you could get to the cap in GW in 1-3 days easy. Sorry that wasn't clear. Not to say all MMOs should be long grueling experiences, but there are always content problems that occur when an MMO is short, and from my knowledge, PvP is there to fill the whole once the whole campaign is done. That just might be my take on it though.
Well give it another year and theres gonna be more PvE than you can swallow. Anyways the game isnt short! The story mode is! Very different...
Theres lots to do after you finish the story mode... its actually the start of a new phase in the game! You will visit the high level areas (Fissure of woe, underworld, tomb, sorrows furnace) where you will farm for those uber weapons or materials you need to sell and make money or to craft great looking armor you always wanted. Theres also some high level quests that get unlocked once you ascend your character... so theres lots more to keep you busy has long has you want to...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistatee
@Nem:

MMO Feel-
MMOs are usually 100% about grouping. You group to escape "the high level guy trying to take loot" You group even larger people to kill the "bos with the phatest loot." Thats just the overall layout of an MMO at this period in time. Now I wouldn't mind playing anything that escapes this mold (like Planetside, if that wasn't ****) which it seems like GW was trying to do, but its not really an MMO, from what I have sad above and below, and ontop of that I really don't care for the game, at all. Also in GW, your actions really have such a minimal impact on the overall game, that it realy looses value when called an MMO. In WoW, atm, people are collecting war supplies across the server to open a gate to a new dungeon. The whole server is working together, as it is a race between servers. Thats a community, and the working together is an example of the MMO feel that isn't present, mainly from the lack of servers, in GW.

Ill end this...for now
I honestly dont see why you think GW isnt a MMO. You have town with lots of people, you group with a party and you go do stuff with that party. Only difference: the map is all yours! No interferance from high level players... cause in the end what does it matter if theres someone standing there when you walk past? Makes nothing for me... might has well have a tree
You said back there you have to go back to town when your party members leave to get more but in the end its about the same time it takes for the nearest available player to reach the place where your party has set camp in other MMORPG's. Yes, its a different way to do things, but i dont see how its less MMO than the other online RPG's.

Look at what you made me write And i left my GW on all this time!! lol!!
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:29 PM   #32
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People seem to be under the wrong impression that GW is a MMORPG. Thats one "M" too many, there's nothing massive about GW. Unless you consider an instanced world or limited (by participants) team deathmath-type PVP "Massive", then by all means, knock yourselves out.

Personally, I liked GW for the story campaign, PVP bored me to tears. But after ascending and doing a few pointles armor quests, I got quickly bored and stopped playing. A higher level cap would have definitely made me want to play the game some more, but running around killing mobs and knowing that all I am getting for it is some coin and items, aint enough of an inentive for me. And Im too lazy tos tart up another toon and re-do all the same boring quests again.

At least in WoW, your starting areas and quests are totally different depending on the race you choose. Makes replaying the game a lot more fun.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:10 PM   #33
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Point in click IS NOT MY CHOICE

if anyone in the game can click on me and follow me forever, then it is confirmed that P&C is there, and it is used regardless of my choice.

I also obviously played at the begining of the game, which apparently is different, becuase nobody really had a "reputation" at all.

It is a viable tactic in an MMO to be ported in (or tag along behind a group) and wait your turn for the group. Also it is practiced often in an MMO that a high level person can grief low levels. Im not saying that it is my personal preference of gameplay, but it is basically the standard of how MMOs play to this point. Now GW could say it is changing how things play, but as me and Seska pointed out, GW is not an MMORPG.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:41 PM   #34
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Then what makes a MORPG massive anyways? It it having everyone together running around in the fields has well has in towns? Are players in the fields what adds Massive to MMORPG? or is it a massive number of players running around town?
The way i see it massive is has in massive number of players. But not necessarily the number you play with in your party or if theres someone running around outside towns that you never seen before...
We need a definition for massive in MMORPG... saying it isnt is easy, but saying why it isnt is a bit harder...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seska
but running around killing mobs and knowing that all I am getting for it is some coin and items, aint enough of an inentive for me. And Im too lazy tos tart up another toon and re-do all the same boring quests again.
Ok you have a point about the quests even though the skill sets of the other professions is completely different. But, isnt what you just described whats left to do to every high level in every MMORPG? I think its a general problem...
Anyways Factions seems to intoduce an ongoing struggle between 2 countries and you'll have to join one. Seems pretty exciting ^^ and gives it more replay value since you can choose a diferent country to start on with another character.
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Old 01-26-2006, 09:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Alucard
You dont want an mmorpg then. You want an action slash single player game. MMORPGs are made with one main thing in mind. To encourage group play.
No, actually i want a MMORPG that plays like this. Something that isnt controlled in a point and click fashion.

Imagine it like PSO, except add tons of players at once, now add an engine that gives you that ability to run/dash/roll/jump/block. Make the game hard, and have a players power not based purley off their stats, but heavily dependant on their playing skill.

Everyone would still have to work together to take down big guys. Yet battles would feel a bit more intesive than "hot key, click, hotkey, click".

Put this game in a non-midevil world. Something with at least technology.

Make this game a Revolution exclusive <3 and dont dumb it down to make a Port to something else. That way alot of extra skill would be involved for all classes. Melee fighters would have to weave in and out of attacks and swing weapons in spesific ways to perice enemy defenses to do the most damage (not just tap A or "click that guy with hotkey"). Long range characters like archers/gunners would have to use the controller to move and aim their weapons. Magic users will have to judge the range of their targets and cast using simple cast motions based off how far away they are.

If they put all this in a game, and make the level cap almost never ending. Kiss my life goodbye.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:01 PM   #36
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A game where the player skill is more important then stats? You're still talking about an action game there. MMORPGS are based off the old concept of D&D table top gaming. What you want is basically PSU. Also its not totally dependant on hotkey-hotkey. If a person with the same level and skills as another doesnt know what he's doing, he will die or cause the team to die. You still need a good amount of knowledge and skill of your character and how the characters around you work to get the best out of your own.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:48 PM   #37
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PSU is a little bit what I want, but only a little.

I like how PSU isnt point and click. You actually run around and fight, commanding each individual swing.

But its only a little bit, it stops there.

PSU looks just like PSO in the fact you cant do much but walk around and swing your sword. no battle system depth and there is almost no skill involved.

PSU also isnt Massive Multiplayer. Its only Multiplayer.

I think skill should be very well considered. Im God awful sick of multiplayer RPG's right now. I havent seen one where the "skill" required isnt something everyone can learn. The only skill involved is strategy, not execution. When your level is what your power is soley based off of, its basicly its a contest of "who dumped more hours into this game"

I want a game that combines both. Time spent on character and execution skill. Of course strategy skills are a given in any game.
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Old 01-26-2006, 11:00 PM   #38
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Problem here is that system you talk about wouldnt work too well because of ping issues. MMORPGs are made specifically so that people with lower ping dont do better then people with higher ping. If its all about heaps of custom moves and dodging and stuff, imagine you dodging, but still getting hit despite knowing you dodged. This is because the server hasnt registered what you see on your screen. Thats why mmorpgs focus on attacks and skills that work time based. Your system would suck royally unless everyone had like cable and a ping of 5. Chances are you will get owned by someone with less skill, but better ping. Picture xbox live. This is why your system wont work with an mmorpg.
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Old 01-26-2006, 11:40 PM   #39
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thats where the Internet2 comes in.

EDIT: but you have to admit, that does sound fun right? Especially with Revo Controllers.

Last edited by seraph830; 01-26-2006 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 01-27-2006, 12:15 AM   #40
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Well if you can ignore the medievil aspect of it go here
Darkfall
Its full on PvP with full loot, and it has FPS aiming, with the choice of melee weapons as well. Plus no levels, just skills and stats raising by using them more.

As for massive here is my Definition:
Fully interactable town. In a PvP oriented game, an enemy can enter a town, and combat functions are able to be used while in town on enemies. Thus it isn't a stabd around game in practice. Ontop of that, towns shouldn't be instanced, as it steals from the actual use of a town, as a meeting place for people. What if a person who wants to do a quest you need is in "district 4" and your in "7" you would miss out. In an MMO, you wouldn't. Yet again towns seem to be more of a chat server then a town. If you got a group of 100 people. You could leave the town and stay together. Thus going through the whole game continent until you reach an enemy city and attacked them. 100v100 battle is massive.
In a Non-pvp world, just reprint what I typed, and remove the PvP from it. The definition is definetly thinner, but I really only play PvP anyway so it works better for me.
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Old 01-27-2006, 07:40 AM   #41
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OK... but in games like FFXI and WoW you have worlds instead of districts, wich is the same really, except you never get to know the ppl in other worlds cause you're stuck in yours... seeing it like that theres no true MMORPG in existance
Anyways, ok ill accept your definition of massive. I dont know any game that allows 100vs100 though maybe WoW? I never really tryed it...
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Old 01-28-2006, 03:30 AM   #42
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Hell, if Anarchy Online allowed massive 100 vs 100 PVP raids, Im pretty sure WoW can do it as well. Doesnt battlerounds allow for craploads of people to kill each other?

As for end-of-level content, Ia gree, Nem, its a problem in most MORPGs, but even more so in Guild Wars because getting to your level cap is so damn fast and easy. At least "proper" MMORPGS are so chock full of content that getting to your cap is a very long, rewarding process.

As for seraph's suggestion of a Skill based MMORPG, I think theres one or two in the works for that, theres that one Car Game (kinda like Mad Max) and some other Korean developer is making a FPS type shooting game MMORPG using the Unreal 3 engine. Looks ineresting.

Ultimately, as Alucard said, because of Ping issues, such games end up being more frustrating than fun, not to mention are a lot more shallow and allow less character customization (skill and aspect-wise) than the full fledged MMORPG counterparts.

I mean, take Guild Wars for example - its one DAMN pretty game, and probably features the sexiest female characters ever to grace a videogame, but what use is that if you only have like 4 or 5 different sets of armor to change your appearance?

Game needs more customization and appearance variety.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:07 AM   #43
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eerr...theres at least 10 sets of armor for each class in GW (some have more than that). If you stoped playing after ascending your character it makes sense you didnt know about it . The crafters are found in towns in your second visit to the shiverpeaks... (in marhans grotto and granite citadel, if you decide to check it out)
All the armors have 15k versions that look different from the ones you saw. Theres also the collectors armor and the hard to get "fow" armor. You can then dye them the color you wish, and actually make lots of combinations with the different sets.
For example, if you look at my monk here on my avatar, he has 15k tatoos dyed black on chest and arms and the simplest droknar leggings dyed black aswell, to make this cool looking character (in my opinion of course ;) ). Feet piece doesnt matter since its hidden on purpose with these leggings and head pieces can be kept invisable or not at your choice
Theres actually lots of variety in GW , but the number of players is also very big, wich makes it seem has unsufficient, but we know theres more incoming armor sets in factions
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:17 PM   #44
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15 armor sets still pales in comparison to the hundreds of sets in other games. Plus you mix and match more often becuase there are a lot more slots to equip for, further adding to customization. I also see GW and Diablo working in this regard. Thanks (though GW has the upperhand over D2 here)

BTW Battlegrounds in WoW are 40 vs 40 with NPCs. Shdowbane also allowed 100vs100 battles, though that game sucked and it inevitably lagged out.
And for everyones information, I am currently MMORPGless, so I am just taking the side of if GW plays like D2 more than an MMO.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:45 AM   #45
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15 armor sets still pales in comparison to the hundreds of sets in other games. Plus you mix and match more often becuase there are a lot more slots to equip for, further adding to customization. I also see GW and Diablo working in this regard. Thanks (though GW has the upperhand over D2 here)

BTW Battlegrounds in WoW are 40 vs 40 with NPCs. Shdowbane also allowed 100vs100 battles, though that game sucked and it inevitably lagged out.
And for everyones information, I am currently MMORPGless, so I am just taking the side of if GW plays like D2 more than an MMO.
If you compare a game versus all the best aspects of every other game in the genre has to offer, its obvious its gonna pale in comparison especially given that perfect game doesnt exist...
The question is... do you have 15 different sets of armor for a high level in those games? And i mean armor with max stats, cause thats what you have in GW! In FFXI every high level looks roughly the same and even though theres room to equip several pieces of armor, you can only see boots, head, body, leggings and weapons... wich is the same has GW. I wont talk about other games i dont know... but obviously they must fall short somewhere else given they dont have the buzz GW, WoW and FFXI have atm...
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