Silicon Knights "Second-hand games 'threaten the industry'"

[KingOfSentinels]

Fuck that, Kindle wins everytime. Love it. All the times I went on holiday and had to decide which games and books to bring; Steam + Kindle = win

[eastx]

Here's one of the best articles I've read on used games' impact on the industry. It's long though.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-of-used-games

The rebuttal of course is usually the same. Used games fuel new game sales; this is GameStop's response and some buy into it. Of course, in reality it's pure conjecture without any evidence. If used game trading fueled new game sales then when used game trade-ins became the new standard a few years ago new games sales should have spiked. Of course they didn't; in fact game sales have stayed mostly flat or actually declined. The causation of that is primarily because not only is the GameStop line a complete fallacy, there's actually a worse truth, which is game churning isn't a one-off second hand thing but a multiple of a multiple. New game gets returned for used game which gets returned for used game which gets returned for used game. It's not like GameStop is pushing new game sales when I bring the first game back. They push enough pre-orders of new software to satisfy their churn on used.

[Einhander]

And on the flip side, and actually based in reality.....

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/0...deo-expensive/

[eastx]

Originally Posted by Einhander

And on the flip side, and actually based in reality.....

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/0...deo-expensive/

This is why you can't learn. You personally.

[Einhander]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[eastx]

Originally Posted by Einhander

I have no idea what you're talking about.

To elaborate, you seem to view the world in black and white rather than shades of grey. Anything that doesn't fall into your already established viewpoint is instantly negated and ignored. As a result, you don't assimilate new information or change or evolve your viewpoints. This is not unlike having a learning disability, though it's truly willful ignorance rather than something you were born with. Most of us don't operate that way, and I imagine it must make your life harder in a number of ways.

[Einhander]

"Richard Browne is a games industry executive, veteran of over 20 years spanning several publishing organizations"

That's who the article is written by. It doesn't make any effort to disclose the fact he's on the publishing side. Of course it's going to be written from an anti-used game perspective. This isn't factual, it's propoganda.

And it's pretty rich that you say I view things in black and white considering all the "USED GAMES ARE BAD. THE END!" rhetoric from the games industry.

[Escaflowne2001]

Originally Posted by Einhander

And it's pretty rich that you say I view things in black and white considering all the "USED GAMES ARE BAD. THE END!" rhetoric from the games industry.

It's not even the games industry it mainly from 3rd rate developers or are upset when no one wants to buy there games and there looking for a scapecoat.

Epic are the only decent developer to speak out and none of the big publishers have ever mention it.

[eastx]

Originally Posted by Einhander

That's who the article is written by. It doesn't make any effort to disclose the fact he's on the publishing side. Of course it's going to be written from an anti-used game perspective. This isn't factual, it's propoganda.

And it's pretty rich that you say I view things in black and white considering all the "USED GAMES ARE BAD. THE END!" rhetoric from the games industry.

Is the games industry your enemy? You claim to love games (I assume), and without all the different parts of it - retailers, developers, and publishers - you'd see either no games or far fewer of them.

You display a consistent lack of respect for the industry viewpoint. Again, the black and white thing. See, identifying a problem and then approaching it from the views of multiple/all sides is the best way to solve the problem, not to stick your fingers in your ears because the people who say there's a problem are on the opposite side of yourself.

The website that published the article is geared towards people in the industry, but that doesn't mean they don't publish articles with different perspectives. The site's editors, unlike you, try to view (and espouse) all sides of industry problems rather than propagandizing.

Originally Posted by Escaflowne2001

It's not even the games industry it mainly from 3rd rate developers or are upset when no one wants to buy there games and there looking for a scapecoat.

Epic are the only decent developer to speak out and none of the big publishers have ever mention it.

Just not true... We could find 30, probably even 50 articles with the perspective of the aforementioned article, and they come from numerous sources. Butcha know what Escaflying, the effect of used gaming on the people you consider 3rd rate (i.e. not huge) developers is greatly touched upon in the article. You should read it.

[Einhander]

Originally Posted by eastx

The website that published the article is geared towards people in the industry, but that doesn't mean they don't publish articles with different perspectives. The site's editors, unlike you, try to view (and espouse) all sides of industry problems rather than propagandizing.

Except that's exactly what they're doing.

Over and over again "USED GAMES ARE BAD! USED GAMES ARE THE END OF THE INDUSTRY!" when it's patently untrue.

[eastx]

Originally Posted by Einhander

Except that's exactly what they're doing.

Over and over again "USED GAMES ARE BAD! USED GAMES ARE THE END OF THE INDUSTRY!" when it's patently untrue.

Why don't you think about the individual points he's making rather than writing it off instantly because it's not what you thought before you even looked at it? You're doing exactly what I pointed out, in case you didn't notice. Yes, thinking is harder than not thinking, but it can be tremendously rewarding.

[Drunken Savior]

That's some extreme hyperbole on your part, Einhander. When they say the used game market 'threatens' the industry, they are talking about lost profit. The prospect of losing profit on a game increases the risk publishers take when they fund the developer's salaries. The additional risk is the threat.

I completely understand the publisher's point of view on this matter. However, like you, I don't agree that one 'used copy sale' means a lost 'new sale.'

[Einhander]

I looked at who the author was, what his position was in the industry and his probable reasons for writing it. That's all I needed to know.

Originally Posted by Drunken Savior

That's some extreme hyperbole on your part, Einhander. When they say the used game market 'threatens' the industry, they are talking about lost profit. The prospect of losing profit on a game increases the risk publishers take when they fund the developer's salaries. The additional risk is the threat.

Except hyperbole is all the industry is using to describe the issue in the first place.

[eastx]

Originally Posted by Einhander

I looked at who the author was, what his position was in the industry and his probable reasons for writing it. That's all I needed to know.

I just can't understand anyone choosing to be stupid. That will never be comprehensible to me. If you were born stupid and literally could not overcome it, that's different. What you do is like amputating your legs without medical need, only with brain cells.

[Escaflowne2001]

Originally Posted by eastx

Butcha know what Escaflying, the effect of used gaming on the people you consider 3rd rate (i.e. not huge) developers is greatly touched upon in the article. You should read it.

I read it but I don't see it gaming hasn't really changed that much and companies have always gone bust over the years in there hundreds. There are still plenty of "mid-tier" developers the only ones that have trouble are the ones that are poor (i.e. Silicon Knights, Factor 5, Obsidian etc) the ones that make decent games have a better time of it.