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Old 07-27-2009, 12:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by AmishNazi View Post
Wait a minute so the millions of people out there using composite cables aren't at a disadvantage to the millions of people using component cables? What about people playing on a 24" or below LCD versus those playing on a 40" or higher screen?
I would think low frame rates would be a little more disadvantageous than image size/clarity.

EDIT: and to be clear, I'm talking still within the context of fighting games like SF4.

Last edited by Seraph; 07-27-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:33 AM   #32
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if I only have a PC powerful enough to run my first person shooter at 640x480 30 fps, and you're running at 1600x1200 over 60 fps, we are no longer on an equal/fair playing field.
Then why even mention the resolution?

Framerate is only an issue on PC if you are one of those people that refuses to tweak your video settings until you get a non-choppy video, or refuse to update your video card every 2-3 years.

To try and pretend that this makes the playing field not level for everyone playing the game is ludicrous, and is just showing bias against the PC platform.

Besides my original post was just saying that framerate lag is BS. Just because someone is get15-30 more fps than you is not going to magically make your system lag, and not double down on the lag.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:58 AM   #33
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The only advantage you'd get from framerate is if the other person has a pc that cant even run call of duty 2 properly and is playing at 10fps, while the guy who upgraded his system about 2 years ago is playing at perfect smoothness with max details. But again thats not the pcs fault. Its like one guy playing on a joypad with a dpad that doesnt work properly because its old, and the other guy has a flashy new rumble one etc that actually blocks when you want.

Or I guess using the BULLSHIT 360 joypad and the other guy using an arcade stick that actually works. Or my favourite, people using the ps3 controller while I use the superior devastating saturn usb pad. Instant advantage <me.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:05 AM   #34
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Then why even mention the resolution?
Because resolution, at least to me, is a lot more substantial than screensize/clarity. The example I gave was of a FPS for Alucard to explain my point.

I disagree with you and think issues like framerate, resolution, and various other unique elements that don’t stay level across the board on PC affect fairness. I can't really say more than that, so if you disagree you disagree.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:16 AM   #35
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Theres no fairness on consoles either. You dont kno what their connection is like or what joypad they're using.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:05 PM   #36
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Well, what ever controls they are using, may it be the dpad or a stick, depends on the player themselves because some are better with dpad than a stick (despite if someone tries convincing the person of which one they're good at. But if someone is better at stick than dpad and are stuck using one on the 360 then that's the only flaw with playing against other 360 players because other than that the rest of the hardware is exactly the same as other 360 players so there's no disadvantages besides (like you said) is their internet connection, where as on a pc there's more factors of fairness like someone having a better graphics card, better processor, more ram.

The thing i can think of that wouldn't make it unfair in pc is (for argument sake) someone's playing guilty gear, the system requirements are

Windows 98/2000/ME/XP
Pentium III 700 MHz
128 MB of RAM
2.1 GB of free hard disk space
DirectX 8.0 compatible video card with 32 MB of RAM
DirectX 8.0 compatible sound card

*(if you're using windows me you should be shot dead on the spot)

But if Person A has slightly above the system requirements

win xp
1ghz cpu
256 mb ram
4gb hdd space (if that's ALL you got see the * above0
DX 9 vid card 128mb ram
DX 9 soundcard (i actually don't know if there is a dx 9 one, but again for argument's sake)

And person B has

win vista
2.8Ghz dual core cpu
2 gb ram
1tb hdd space
dx 10 vid and soundcard

(i'm not sure what resolution would be the best for the game but if person A had it set just right and B as well even if B can have a higher resolution and play just fine)


If person A is able to run the game perfectly fine with those specs with no kind of framerate issues or lag in the game and is playing against person B then it would be fair game. Same applies to SF4 if person A has slightly above specs to play the game where as person B had mom and dad pay for upgrades to good parts. Then the only thing that would affect the gameplay is internet connection and I guess also the factor of which controls they were using, where in this case there's more because they can use either keyboard, usb controller (i'll say the 360 controller to give it the crap factor for the dpad) and also stick.

Point is there's more factors to consider on the pc version of weather or not there will be a fair game mainly because of hardware issues where as on the 360 all of the hardware will be the same and the main concern is internet connection.

The thing is you can also change the resolution on some (maybe all?) 360 games, such as on team fortress 2 I can change the resolution, although I never have, but i don't know if on the console that would affect the game.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:20 PM   #37
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Resolution only adds framerate the lower it goes. But ALL games like that are set to a MAX frame limit. If your pc cant run the game thats not the games fault. Thats nothing to do with fair or unfair. Its called stupid user. No different to connecting to xbox live using cable or dialup. Thats the exact same thing. You cant blame hardware for your own choices.

Back in the day of counterstrike if anyone logged into the game with dialup and they were stuttery, noone called out unfair or whatever. Everyone gets hit, the dialup guy more ofcourse but the thing is its not an unfair advantage. Its the choice the user makes. If they want to play with dialup, good on them for being cheap bastards. Same example can be used for not upgrading your pc yet for some reason claiming to like games.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:18 PM   #38
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Of course it's not the game's fault, that's not what I'm saying, and yes they're cheap bastards if they want to run higher spec games on crap hardware. The thing I'm saying is there IS disadvantage to the user who has the lower spec hardware, NOT saying the higher spec user has an advantage. Fact is if one person has low specs, the other has high specs, there is some unfairness, although not purposely but there's some none the less.

And it is different than someone connecting to xbox live with dialup or cable. Hardware lag /= connection lag. You can have top of the line hardware on your pc but if your net connection is crap there is going to be lag. But when you take that crap connection + crap pc hardware = crap gameplay, where as on the 360 you're pretty much just worry about net connection.
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:07 PM   #39
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You're under the assumption that alot of people playing on the pc are doing it with low end systems. Most people wont play the game if their pc doesnt run it well, especially not online. There might be a handful of special people but over all it should be normal, no different to my dialup example.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:16 PM   #40
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I'm not under that assumption. I'm under the assumption that ppl have different pc parts than other people, and combining that with different internet connections will cause some issues, ie lag. I'm sure you agree with me on that considering you know quite a bit about pcs yourself, you know that differences in hardware between two pcs trying to play games against each other will have more issues than on two consoles that have the exact same parts, exact same specs.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:37 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by MarionetteKazuk View Post
I'm not under that assumption. I'm under the assumption that ppl have different pc parts than other people, and combining that with different internet connections will cause some issues, ie lag. I'm sure you agree with me on that considering you know quite a bit about pcs yourself, you know that differences in hardware between two pcs trying to play games against each other will have more issues than on two consoles that have the exact same parts, exact same specs.
Lag from the net connection. The hardware will not cause lag unless you do not understand how to turn settings up or down until you have a smooth framerate.

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Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
Because resolution, at least to me, is a lot more substantial than screensize/clarity. The example I gave was of a FPS for Alucard to explain my point.

I disagree with you and think issues like framerate, resolution, and various other unique elements that don’t stay level across the board on PC affect fairness. I can't really say more than that, so if you disagree you disagree.
Thing is in my original post I pointed out that people with composite (480i) are at a disadvantage to someone playing with component (720p-1080p). These are different resolutions.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:03 AM   #42
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Technically the 480i would be at an advantage as the game would be running with a higher framerate.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:11 AM   #43
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I thought that they got less frames @ 480i because they had to downscale it to 480i?
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:40 AM   #44
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Well I'm just going by the logic on pc hardware. You raise the resolution, you get a performance hit. I'm sure both are locked at a max setting though. Like nothing over 30frames or something. But yeah either way, this is another definition of unfair. Does everyone who has an xbox run their game at 720/1080, or stick to the lower 480/560? Because not everyone has a hdtv. So technically they're playing on an unfair advantage aswell. 1080 uses more power then 720 and under. Frames can skip.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:25 PM   #45
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They can but do they?
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