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View Full Version : RIP OFF! RE4 is a rip off!


Monkey-King
02-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Come on Capcom did you really need to rip-off Silent Hill art to make the next RE? Was it foremost in your minds to show zero or little creativity? Or did you just want to make it painfully obvious that you could just copy everyone else and nobody would care because the series is OVER!

What a travesty to just show so little creativity and just follow the pack....then again what can you expect when you have to make something for Nintendo dead box! Why even make any effort when nobody will see the game anyway....

Axe Wielding Nut
02-14-2004, 11:56 AM
who cares, as long as it rocks I don't give a **** what it rips off or not

not saying that your right of course, becuase I didn't read your post

Vicviper
02-14-2004, 01:14 PM
Man you need to show some sort of proof to back up your rant. Can you compare screenshots and point out where the problems are?

Icarus4578
02-14-2004, 02:50 PM
Uuuuh, isn't it the other way around? This is just a stupid rant by somebody that's clearly jealous that RE is on a Nintendo platform.

Drunken Savior
02-14-2004, 02:53 PM
I concur. Much of the controls of Silent Hill was ripped right out of RE. Both games are great survival horror games. But when it comes to supportin zombies or supportin...freaky creature, I side with zombies. Silent Hill 3 pissed me off when I completed it.

Rubeus
02-14-2004, 08:39 PM
I'd say RE4 borrowed more ideas from SIREN than Silent Hill.

Dreamkin
02-14-2004, 08:59 PM
I'd say all of them were ripped off from Alone In The Dark

Dreamkin is listening to Toto - "Hold The Line"

Playonline ID: Dreamkin

Axe Wielding Nut
02-14-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Dreamkin
I'd say all of them were ripped off from Alone In The Dark

Dreamkin is listening to Toto - "Hold The Line"

Playonline ID: Dreamkin


exactly, alone in the dark was the true innovator of the survival horror junk.., plus the first one was completely fucked up...

good point there, D

spider-prime
02-14-2004, 09:13 PM
I was just gonna say that too, Alone in the dark was the first and all of them copy it :)

camac
02-14-2004, 10:14 PM
Rip off or not, I like the direction its going to, looks intresting :D Not just another old RE.

Monkey-King
02-14-2004, 10:27 PM
My point isn't gameplay because we don't know what that will be yet...as I said.... it the ART I'm talking about. Why go the direction that Silent Hill, Siren, and Fatale Frame have with the grainy or washed out colors? I though the look of the RE re-makes on GC were good. It looked liek RE only better.

Why follow the crowd with those sun bleached graphics...it makes no sense!

Nyceane
02-15-2004, 02:05 AM
hmmm, about what you saying, are you retarded enough to not realize its other way around? RE series was before SH series, SH series is a rip off of RE in the first place

Mishi
02-15-2004, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Monkey-King
My point isn't gameplay because we don't know what that will be yet...as I said.... it the ART I'm talking about. Why go the direction that Silent Hill, Siren, and Fatale Frame have with the grainy or washed out colors? I though the look of the RE re-makes on GC were good. It looked liek RE only better.

Why follow the crowd with those sun bleached graphics...it makes no sense!

uuuh. it doesnt look like that form teh screens i've been looking at.

jeremy_aerts
02-15-2004, 02:25 AM
Resident Evil 4 DOES look good, but i would lay money silent hill 4 will be the scarier game. BY FAR!

Alucard
02-15-2004, 03:43 AM
For sure. Nothing beats Silent Hill.

deftoned
02-15-2004, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by jeremy_aerts
Resident Evil 4 DOES look good, but i would lay money silent hill 4 will be the scarier game. BY FAR!

most survival horrors are scarier than any RE games, in my opinion. RE is too predictable.

Icarus4578
02-15-2004, 08:20 AM
I don't think any video game is scary. Then again the best of the horror film genre has yet to scare me. I just enjoy RE titles for the thrill of it (when they're good that is).

DeathStroke
02-15-2004, 09:28 AM
I disagree completely. Have you read some of the gameplay details for RE4? It is looking increasingly like SH4 will just be another installment in the series with the same controls while RE4 will actually be trying to change the scheme it invented. And then there's the other parts like being able to target body parts and AI routines that put Halo to shame.

As for the graphics, they look about the same but a little better then before. The thing you're noticing is that the pics we've seen are in the daylight. All RE games have been set at night so naturally it looks a bit different. Nightfall will come in this game though and when it does, all you'll have is the moonlight to see by.

EatenSnake
02-15-2004, 10:25 AM
It's a false lead the game won't wind up this way or at least once you get in to it it will turn into a true sequel.

DeathStroke
02-15-2004, 10:53 AM
You must be some kind of prophet. What is your religion and how may I subscribe to it?

Dreamkin
02-15-2004, 05:01 PM
Well... For starters in the game business it is like this: You don't fix it if it works. Silent Hill works. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just add some extras.

Resident Evil though. It is not the gameplay that matters. The whole story is gone and done. I have no will to play RE because I know it is the zombies. The virus. And if it is not... it will not be RE. RE has a very bad story to start with. A B-movie story. And it is wasted in my opinion. They could have given it all bit by bit. But they did not. SH on the other hand is far more subtle and superior on the story.

DeathStroke
02-15-2004, 05:52 PM
None of which makes RE4, a SH4 rip off. The game is obviously borrowing from a lot of different places, not just SH4. And in which case, SH4 gets its influence from Twin Peaks and various other places.

Resident Evil though. It is not the gameplay that matters. The whole story is gone and done. I have no will to play RE because I know it is the zombies. The virus. And if it is not... it will not be RE.

Sounds pretty close minded to me. It's like you can't accept the fact that they're going to make changes. Changes that got green lighted because people like you complained in the first place.

Oh and I'd like to add that I've read the full GI article at Rehorror.com and while they say the control scheme is unchanged, the game plays a lot differently because of the gameplay changes.

The story, we'll have to agree to disagree on. As good as SH's story was, I think RE2 and even RE CV are equal to it.

jeremy_aerts
02-16-2004, 12:23 AM
ok, here is why the story in the silent hill's are better then resident evil 2 and code veronica. While the story in those two resident evil's are OK, the fault in them is that they explain EVERYTHING. You know why this is happening because of the virus, and blah blah, no surprises, predictable plot twists. A very average story if you think about it.

Now, what makes the silent hill series so strong is that they DON'T explain everything. This creates the player to imagine why this is happening through clues (often vague) that the cutscenes provide. And what the players sees and the players imagination can produce FARRRR scarier interpretations of events then anything capcom can explain to us.

Capcom should just start over with a new series in my opinion, but of course, that doesn't equal guarranteed profit. The story is over in resident evil. And the picts of the guy with the chainsaw is actually, not the least bit scary, i've seen a chainsaw since i first played doom all those years ago. Now a freak-ish pyramid head looking freak that carries a bad ass sword, now we're talking.

Icarus4578
02-16-2004, 12:29 AM
Just because something isn't clearly explained doesn't make it good. Likewise, just because something's secret doesn't make it any better. Neither of these factor into whether or not a story is any good. RE? I don't care for the story - then again, I don't buy games looking for a good novel. Same goes for SH. Look, David Lynch films don't usually make any sense or explain everything but that fact alone doesn't make them great films.

jeremy_aerts
02-16-2004, 12:38 AM
TRUE, BUT, silent hill actually gets the player involved in the story by having the player fill in the gaps. In resident evil, the story should have ended in part 2. None of this resident evil 0 junk.

Aww, your not a fan of the survival horror genre, what do you know? :spinface:

Axe Wielding Nut
02-16-2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Icarus4578
Just because something isn't clearly explained doesn't make it good. Likewise, just because something's secret doesn't make it any better. Neither of these factor into whether or not a story is any good. RE? I don't care for the story - then again, I don't buy games looking for a good novel. Same goes for SH. Look, David Lynch films don't usually make any sense or explain everything but that fact alone doesn't make them great films.

I agree with you, but atleast Silent Hill fucks with you, like Fatal frame fucks with you

Resident Evil fucks with you in a "why am I playing this stupid game" kind of fucks with you, I don't dig that

jeremy_aerts
02-16-2004, 01:01 AM
Exactly

Vegetto
02-16-2004, 01:43 AM
does gorath like to say ****?

IMO this is one if my most anticipated game, i personally dont play silent hill games
i played the first one, and the puzzles were so damn stupid and made no sense whatsoever
however, i havent played any of the others, so i cant judge them

IoriYagami n8
02-16-2004, 02:04 AM
First off, the game looks grainy not because it's ripping off Silent Hill, but because they are magazine scans. Glossy paper doesn't help.

People complain that RE has gotten stale, and it looks like they have dropped the old story line and are taking in some fresh ideas. And then one of those people complains that if they change the story lines premises it wouldn't be a RE game. That doesn't exactly make sense. Game series aren't restricted to storylines, they are restricted generally by themes or characters.

Dreamkin
02-16-2004, 06:59 AM
It is not the known/unknown factor. It is the fact of the matter. Resident Evil was modelled after Romero's B-Movies. Zobies rise, eat other humans, etc. It is freaky when you first watch it, because you are 7 years old. Settings are mainly there to provide some sense of claustrophobia. The entire RE 1 takes place in a mansion. RE 2 takes place in a police station. And let us compare first creature you see in the best RE evil game (RE2) and the worst SH game (SH2) (I don't agree with this worst best but it seems to be general opinion)

***SOME SPOILERS***


RE2 = Burning Zombie. It is a human corpse that walks slowly moaning. It is burning because a truck just exploded. And it is coming for you because it is a zombie. Everyone bitten becomes a zombie while you don't. Even if it is the green plants it is funny no one ever seems to realize that.

SH2 = Thingie. We'll call it zombie. Distinctly female. Female because it symbolizes your wife. The upper body is closed up in some kind of smooth coccoon as if it is in some lind of blastic bag made of flesh. It sometimes caughs a poisonois gas. Because your wife had a lung illness that made her unbearable. And she coughs on and on. It moves its "shoulders" and has sudden shivering moves in the upper body as if trying to get rid of the bag. Looks exactly like someone's been suffocated by pressing a pillow on her mouth. Because that is EXACTLY how you killed your wife.

***SPOILERS END***

See? That is the difference between the design philosophy they each development team has. You can see that Silent Hill is crafted in a very painful and careful process by the tons of details they have in every single centimeter of the games while Resident Evil is mainly about "BOOOO!".

I am not against a renewal of the series. But the problem here is that Resident Evil is SO Resident Evil... so defined that it would be not Resident Evil 4 if they change the whole thing. I mean... how much are they going to change it really? Evil corporation produces different virus types to create monsters. Okay. What now? The head of that corporation is satan? Jill was in fact an alien? Or as they show in the trailers Leon gets infected... Somehow I suspect while everyone becomes an evil mutant Leon will become a mutant slaying half demon half human full metal baddass like Dante or Samanosuke. If that is their plot twist than you very much I won't take it.

What next? Somebody in starwars Episode 3 will come and say Anakin was not Darth Vader anyway...? Ben Kenobi and Obi Wan were not the same guys? It was all a computer simulation? The "Bill I had this very weird dream" ending?

Dreamkin is listening to Erkin Koray - "Akrebin Gozleri"

Playonline ID: Dreamkin

Seska
02-16-2004, 07:53 AM
Iori has it right, its not really about story, but about setting and atmosphere. Invariably, all RE gives us is the devastared town/lab/mansion overrun by zombies. The only thing different in each RE game is the series of events that led to the devastation, but we all know in some form or another its a virus getting loose, so that knocks out a fair bit of the mystery in the story and setting, since we know what to expect already. The main characters ALWAYS arrive after everyone has been "zombified".

Silent Hill, on the other hand, is much more psychological. As Dreamkin pointed out, its very much character focused, and Silent Hill becomes a purgatory of sorts for people to resolve unsolved issues in - this was particularly the case in SH2. Unlike RE, when the worlds in SH turn inside out, you dont know what to expect, and this makes following up the story even more involving because you yearn to glean a shred of info to help understand the Silent Hill mythos. Konami are very clever in not giving all the details straight away and leaving enough mystery to make each consecutive return to Silent Hill something new and different, although equally screwed up.

However, kudos do go to Capcom this time around in altering the RE formula enough to make it a fresh and interesting approach. The town apparently is not overrun by zombies, and for the first time we will get tos ee how the virus slowly takes its toll on the populace. That brings in a whole set of moral dilemmas for Leon to tackle - is it right for him to kill someone who is still human but in the process of becoming a monster?

Im definitely looking forward to RE4, not only gameplaywise but story and setting-wise as well.

Icarus4578
02-16-2004, 11:21 AM
Dreamkin - "See? That is the difference between the design philosophy they each development team has. You can see that Silent Hill is crafted in a very painful and careful process by the tons of details they have in every single centimeter of the games while Resident Evil is mainly about "BOOOO!"."

Not entirely true. The first RE was about making people jump and such, and part 2 was in a higher level because of that Tyrant guy that bashes through walls suddenly. RE3 just sukked so we won't go there. RE~CV was mainly about plot and I didn't care for it. I watched my brother play through Silent Hill 2 and wasn't impressed at all by it, except for the the tone of the setting and some of the monster designs. What about the RE remake for GC with that Lisa Trevor with the shackles on? That was pretty cool, but I didn't like how she got taken out, so to speak. RE on GC is a great game and I don't give a rat's ass about the writing.

And Seska, how do you know anything about the main storyline to RE4? Did you read that somewhere that was officially confirmed by Capcom?

EDIT: Nevermind - I read the article in the Nintendo forums.

DeathStroke
02-16-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Dreamkin
It is not the known/unknown factor. It is the fact of the matter. Resident Evil was modelled after Romero's B-Movies. Zobies rise, eat other humans, etc. It is freaky when you first watch it, because you are 7 years old. Settings are mainly there to provide some sense of claustrophobia. The entire RE 1 takes place in a mansion. RE 2 takes place in a police station. And let us compare first creature you see in the best RE evil game (RE2) and the worst SH game (SH2) (I don't agree with this worst best but it seems to be general opinion)

***SOME SPOILERS***


RE2 = Burning Zombie. It is a human corpse that walks slowly moaning. It is burning because a truck just exploded. And it is coming for you because it is a zombie. Everyone bitten becomes a zombie while you don't. Even if it is the green plants it is funny no one ever seems to realize that.

SH2 = Thingie. We'll call it zombie. Distinctly female. Female because it symbolizes your wife. The upper body is closed up in some kind of smooth coccoon as if it is in some lind of blastic bag made of flesh. It sometimes caughs a poisonois gas. Because your wife had a lung illness that made her unbearable. And she coughs on and on. It moves its "shoulders" and has sudden shivering moves in the upper body as if trying to get rid of the bag. Looks exactly like someone's been suffocated by pressing a pillow on her mouth. Because that is EXACTLY how you killed your wife.

***SPOILERS END***

See? That is the difference between the design philosophy they each development team has. You can see that Silent Hill is crafted in a very painful and careful process by the tons of details they have in every single centimeter of the games while Resident Evil is mainly about "BOOOO!".

One problem with your analysis. RE has a greater variety of enemies. The zombies may be the first things you see but they aren't the only things in the game. There are other creatures near the beginning or midway through each game that take precedence over the zombies. In RE1, it was the hunters. In RE2, it was the Lickers. In RE3, it was Nemesis. Compare that to SH2 where each enemy is just a variation of that first thing you saw. About the only other thing you see is Pyramid Head and that last boss.

Posted by Dreamkin
I am not against a renewal of the series. But the problem here is that Resident Evil is SO Resident Evil... so defined that it would be not Resident Evil 4 if they change the whole thing. I mean... how much are they going to change it really? Evil corporation produces different virus types to create monsters. Okay. What now? The head of that corporation is satan? Jill was in fact an alien? Or as they show in the trailers Leon gets infected... Somehow I suspect while everyone becomes an evil mutant Leon will become a mutant slaying half demon half human full metal baddass like Dante or Samanosuke. If that is their plot twist than you very much I won't take it.

What next? Somebody in starwars Episode 3 will come and say Anakin was not Darth Vader anyway...? Ben Kenobi and Obi Wan were not the same guys? It was all a computer simulation? The "Bill I had this very weird dream" ending?

Dreamkin is listening to Erkin Koray - "Akrebin Gozleri"

Playonline ID: Dreamkin

You seem to be judging the storyline when you only know about a sentence worth of it. RE has been rooted in Science while SH fringes on horror. I really doubt Capcom would change it so radically as to have Leon become like Dante. And in any case, I don't agree with this. RE has never been about strictly the zombies. It's the storyline and atmosphere all rolled into one. This new game seems to be upping the atmosphere upwards and the story will probably be very good especially if they're setting up some sort of aftermath scenario with Umbrella destroyed and some new company (maybe Wesker's) taking over their research.

Dreamkin
02-17-2004, 05:33 AM
Science? You mean science fiction right? Because the entire resident evil stody does not make sense at all. It is not MEANT to make sense I know. But it is sertainly not rooted in science. NOt even science fiction. More like fantasy science. It's like Bruce Banner becoming The Incredible Hulk becuase of gamma radiation exposion or Peter Parker getting bit buy a radiation exposed spider and suddenly being able to stick onto walls. Let me tell you that radiation does not do that. If you are bit by a radiation exposed spider your best bet would be getting poisoned, worst catching skin cancer.

I DO say only once sentence about RE storyline because IT IS about one sentence. As Icarus points out it was all about jumping on people all the time. And after the second BOO I get bored of the fear factor. Designs MAY have been cool in some cases and RE may have a lot more creatures in it. But see if I want to see more creatures I go and visit the zoo. As for your example there IS a reason why Pyramid Head is in that game, why it is the most fearsome monster, why you never seem to be able to kill it and why it appears till the end of the game, throughout the game and why it is in the shape it is. For my part I can see absolutely no reason why the Licker is in the shape it is. There is a huge valley of difference between the amount of "content" in the two series.

I am not against RE going into a new direction. It's just I find it hard to change the direction without changing RE. If they manage it I'd applaud them first. By now everyone in this forum should know that I am against premeture bashing of games. My problem with RE is that Capcom lost my interest in it.

If you speak of the puzzles. Well my favorite genre of computer games is still Adventure. (Yes a bit of a dinosaur here) Seen many puzzles in my time. And I can say the puzzles in both games are both pathetic and does not make any sense. But at least SH places it all in a surreal world justifying the weirdness of the puzzles a bit. RE though... RE 2 takes place in an insanely huge Police Station with lots of pushing blocks and traps and weird mechanisms. If I was the author of that game I'd not make the story about zombies. I'd write about the psychology of the guy who built that place. Would be more interesting.

Dreamkin is listening to Ayreon - "Through The Wormhole"

Playonline ID: Dreamkin

DeathStroke
02-17-2004, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Dreamkin
Science? You mean science fiction right? Because the entire resident evil stody does not make sense at all. It is not MEANT to make sense I know. But it is sertainly not rooted in science. NOt even science fiction. More like fantasy science. It's like Bruce Banner becoming The Incredible Hulk becuase of gamma radiation exposion or Peter Parker getting bit buy a radiation exposed spider and suddenly being able to stick onto walls. Let me tell you that radiation does not do that. If you are bit by a radiation exposed spider your best bet would be getting poisoned, worst catching skin cancer.

Well yeah, but in RE's case we do get an explanation. And how doesn't it make sense? A corporation making doing viral research to create the perfect type of soldier. Seems to make enough sense to me.

I DO say only once sentence about RE storyline because IT IS about one sentence. As Icarus points out it was all about jumping on people all the time. And after the second BOO I get bored of the fear factor.

Any game, even SH, is like that. Unless it features a multi-scenario type approach like in RE3 or RE2, you're probably going to see everything the first time through.

Designs MAY have been cool in some cases and RE may have a lot more creatures in it. But see if I want to see more creatures I go and visit the zoo.

That's a red herring. You were using examples of creatures to show the creativity of the SH team as opposed to the RE team. I'm saying it isn't true as far as I'm concerned. One game throws what is essentially two creatures at you the entire game while the other features more.

As for your example there IS a reason why Pyramid Head is in that game, why it is the most fearsome monster, why you never seem to be able to kill it and why it appears till the end of the game, throughout the game and why it is in the shape it is.

I know this and the same is true for Nemesis.

For my part I can see absolutely no reason why the Licker is in the shape it is. There is a huge valley of difference between the amount of "content" in the two series.

A cardinal mistake here. You're judging Pyramid Head based on why he's in the game and you're judging the Licker based on the way he looks. Why don't you ask yourself, why James' guilt over his wife's death chose to embody itself in the image of a guy with a triangular helmet over his head. The answer is in the game as is the answer of why the Licker looks the way it does.

I am not against RE going into a new direction. It's just I find it hard to change the direction without changing RE.

This is my biggest problem with every single argument I've heard since those pictures came out:

How Is It Not Residen Evil?

If the game was defined only by zombies, it would have bit the dust a long time ago instead of becoming the most popular entry in the Survival Horror sub genre.

If you speak of the puzzles. Well my favorite genre of computer games is still Adventure. (Yes a bit of a dinosaur here) Seen many puzzles in my time. And I can say the puzzles in both games are both pathetic and does not make any sense. But at least SH places it all in a surreal world justifying the weirdness of the puzzles a bit. RE though... RE 2 takes place in an insanely huge Police Station with lots of pushing blocks and traps and weird mechanisms. If I was the author of that game I'd not make the story about zombies. I'd write about the psychology of the guy who built that place. Would be more interesting.

They did write a bit about the psychology of the guy that built the original mansion. I agree the puzzles seemed somewhat retarded in the context of the police station and the city. Especially that jewel puzzle in RE3. That was just way out there. IMO, SH's puzzles are better.

jeremy_aerts
02-17-2004, 01:10 PM
They did write about the pyschology of the guy that built the mansion? it must not have been too memorable as i have played through it three times.

"A corporation doing viral research to create the ultimate soldier" is a really lame premise and has "average story" written all over it. And as you "say" you can, explain in one sentence why the town of silent hill is the way it is. Go for it.

Silent hill 2 may not have a huge quanitity of creatures, but that doesn't matter, it's what you DON'T see that's terrifying. And the creatures that they do have (which is more then 2) are more disturbing then a walking zombie and pyramid head if far more terrifying then nemisis. Nemisis didn't even scare me, ok..perhaps he made me jump once or twice through the use of a BOO scene. The purpose of nemisis is to hunt star memebers...i won't really put that in the same category as pyramid head. Pyramid head look/purpose is deeper then simply "hunting star members"

While i'm all up for heading resident evil in a new direction, i have a feeling that the setting may be a bit different, but the story will be the same repeat that it has been in the last resident evil's.

DeathStroke
02-17-2004, 02:40 PM
Pipe down jeremy. Mommy and Daddy are talking.

Now, I'll address the only valid thing you had to contribute:

Nemisis didn't even scare me, ok..perhaps he made me jump once or twice through the use of a BOO scene. The purpose of nemisis is to hunt star memebers...i won't really put that in the same category as pyramid head. Pyramid head look/purpose is deeper then simply "hunting star members"

What do you think the purpose of Pyramid Head was except to create BOO scenarios. It was the same exact thing. He popped up in places to scare you.

As for the story purpose, guilt vs. mega corp. sending in their own created assassin to hunt down their enemies. One's psychological and since I think you're a psycho kind of guy you like the SH2 scenario better.

jeremy_aerts
02-17-2004, 02:56 PM
Number 1, you did not explain the story of silent hill in one sentence, just one of it's characters so i'll assume you can't.

Number 2, pyramid head was there in a way, to represent his wife getting suffucated by a pillow. Pyramid head had more meaning then nemisis.

Number 3, since you don't seem like a too smart kind of guy and like your stories shallow, i'll assume you like resident evil more. :D

DeathStroke
02-17-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by jeremy_aerts
Number 1, you did not explain the story of silent hill in one sentence, just one of it's characters so i'll assume you can't.

Demon takes over town, causes illusions. (Explains Silent Hill 1 and 3 and to an extent 2)

Anything more then that and you're getting into details and since you obviously don't want to handle the details in RE games then you won't care if the ones in SH are left out.

Number 2, pyramid head was there in a way, to represent his wife getting suffucated by a pillow. Pyramid head had more meaning then nemisis.

Extrapolate. Tie it together for me since you seem to think the following.

Number 3, since you don't seem like a too smart kind of guy and like your stories shallow, i'll assume you like resident evil more. :D

My own theory is that Pyramid Head was James' guilt for killing his wife. In that way, it has as much meaning to the story as Nemesis.

Dreamkin
02-17-2004, 04:49 PM
This is useless. It is also meaningless. All of which does not give you any right to accuse people of being psycho or anything. So

1)Stop being insulting.

2)I don understand all your excitement and fever about defending Resident Evil against Silent Hill. It's okay. I am not against that. The problem here is no one is attacking Resident Evil so you don't need to defend it.

Silent Hill's story is NOT about a demon taking over the town and causing illusions. That is just a plot element which allows Silent Hill to be virtually about anything. I really don't see any point in discussing this. YES Resident Evil's story is VERY simple. And yes it ultimately does not make sense at all. The reason why it does not make sense is because they tried to explain everything in logical scientific terms and again as I said earlier ended up with Peter Parker and his radioactive spider. Spiderman does not make sense at all but I like Spiderman. I also like Resident Evil. But I have also read comicbooks like Midnight Nation, Rising Stars and even the good old Sandman. It takes a blind person to say that Spiderman's plot is better than Sandman's. They are not comparable. Silent Hill and Resident Evil are like apple and purple. One is MEANT to have a simple stupid storyline as an excuse to have lots of weird monsters and zombies around so that you can shoot at them untill blood pool underneath. The whole base of it depends onthis formula. It is a B-movie made into computer game. People go into an abondoned mansion to see it was taken over by zombies. It is meant to be stupid. And please don't say that the plot makes any sense at all. Apart from being a part time DJ and part time game designer (although I think of quitting these days) my main job is Criminology. So trust me. I KNOW corpses. It is my job to know them. RE is is that. Let us not pretend it is more than it was. Why is it popular. Because Capcom was clever. After years of waiting they produced the first good Alone in the Dark clone and they succeeded. Just like Blizzard succeeded with their Dune II clone. The difference between Warcraft and RE is that Warcraft later went on to become something different and create its own character, always progressing. RE stayed basicly the same. In story and gameplay. RE is fine. I loved it as it lasted. But 5 times the same thing bores me. When I play a SH game I keep my eyes open from the first moment of the game. What does this monster look like? Why pink bunny? Why hospital? Why is it snowing? What is that faint mark on the carpet?

And I know it all is there for a purpose. Which makes every installation a new challange, a new puzzle for me. But after 5 installation... no after 2.. I knew it was the zombies and umbrella and it always will be.

Get the point. See I am not even discussing that mind you. If you wanna start about HOW logical genetically engineered super soldiers who can stick onto walls, have claws so that they cannot operate any machinery, have a huge tongue that can decapite people are... I don't know if I am willing to expent the ATP for that. So please let someone else take it over for me in case it goes that way.

Dreamkin is listening to Ayreon - "Amazing Flight"

Playonline ID: Dreamkin

Seska
02-17-2004, 05:21 PM
I like the Motion Picture version of Umbrella better - they are doing viral research to discover an agent that keeps you immortally young - the side effect being you becoming a Zombie. :D

thesoftware6180
02-17-2004, 07:14 PM
yeah silent hill might be a little bit more scary but,RE is more fun and imo have better graphics,better characters, better plot and more jumpy moments i havent played SH3 yet but ill pick it up soon.

RE4 WILL OWN ALL.

DeathStroke
02-17-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Dreamkin
[B]This is useless. It is also meaningless. All of which does not give you any right to accuse people of being psycho or anything. So

1)Stop being insulting.

Humor, sir. Learn to appreciate it.

2)I don understand all your excitement and fever about defending Resident Evil against Silent Hill. It's okay. I am not against that. The problem here is no one is attacking Resident Evil so you don't need to defend it.

Oh really, no-one is attacking Resident Evil? Are we reading the same thread? You know, the one about RE being a rip off. You're the one that took it this far. I've only been responding to your own arguments.

Silent Hill's story is NOT about a demon taking over the town and causing illusions. That is just a plot element which allows Silent Hill to be virtually about anything.

The core element of the plot defines the plot and all that nonsense about Samuel means that he's behind everything.

YES Resident Evil's story is VERY simple. And yes it ultimately does not make sense at all. The reason why it does not make sense is because they tried to explain everything in logical scientific terms and again as I said earlier ended up with Peter Parker and his radioactive spider.

I'm going to need examples here. Your word has suddenly become meaningless. About the only thing you could criticize in the RE storyline is the nuke at the end of RE3 and maybe how fast the virus spread through Raccoon city and why nobody did anything about it. In the latter's case, Umbrella was the one keeping anything from going forward.

In story and gameplay. RE is fine. I loved it as it lasted. But 5 times the same thing bores me. When I play a SH game I keep my eyes open from the first moment of the game. What does this monster look like? Why pink bunny? Why hospital? Why is it snowing? What is that faint mark on the carpet?

You have a big misconception of RE's story. It is a continuing arc. Every piece of story seagues into the next one and all are connected. Each gives us some element of information regarding Umbrella and their activities. Each gives us insight into a character's background.

Silent Hill, on the other hand, what purpose is their for James coming back? The man ran himself ragged in SH2. Why is he back in SH4? THe reason damn well better be good because unless it is, OMG, tehy hAvE rUiNeD SH4.

Get the point. See I am not even discussing that mind you. If you wanna start about HOW logical genetically engineered super soldiers who can stick onto walls, have claws so that they cannot operate any machinery, have a huge tongue that can decapite people are... I don't know if I am willing to expent the ATP for that. So please let someone else take it over for me in case it goes that way.

As far as I understand, the research over the virus was never finished. And as for them being useless, here's two words, groud troops. I'm sure nobody out there wants soldiers that can go down, create mass panic and have a half life of a few days. Yeah, I'm sure that such disposable troops would interest nobody. :rolleyes:

Dreamkin
02-17-2004, 08:34 PM
I give up. You win. I am unable to appreciete humor really. Different culture I guess. We don't have humor here. Stupid me, how could I not see the amazing story of Resident Evil? Sorry really. You are right. Every single episode of Resident Evil is gives us a new most exciting piece of information about umbrella the evil corporation. It all checks out. Very cool story really. So it IS indeed about a corporation trying to produce super mutant soldiers. I am enlightened. Like.. who could have thought of THAT? Indeed the most involved and interesting and original storyline ever created. No one has told that story before. And it really makes absolutely wonderful sense to go through the pain of designing mosnters with huge tongues that should go behind the lines (Whatever line that is) to scare the **** out of people and make them fear and get them slaughtered one by one. Yes.. Let us do that instead of carpet bombing. Let us only make soldiers that are useful in horror movie environments. Geee.. now that I put it that way it is such a simple yet brilliant idea I wonder why nobody thought of it before. And yes I have been bashing Resident Evil of being a ripoff. Yes people replying under a discussion title should either agree or totally disagree with it. There can never be a third way. Resident Evil is indeed very original in the way it never even got one single little element from any of the Alone In The Dark games. And yes a good story is all about lots of different disgusting monsters that jump on you from different directions. Also... my example is all about the nuke yes. I think you realized that very important fact judging from the word "radioactive" I was certainly not pointing out the similarity between the stupidity of the storylines of Spiderman and Resident Evil and yet both of them being successful good products. I wasn't really. It is all about the nuke at the end of RE 3. Ah the end made me get a heart attack. TWO WORDS ...Ground Troops... Dammit!!! Why did I not see that?? Now I understand the whole amazing fantabulous story of Resident Evil. Ground Troops. And i thought they were producing a turn based soccer team with those zombies. A good game series is all about returning characters. Oh how I hated RE2. It had no returning character in it. I am really excited about the new amazing arcs the story they will draw on the sand with the new installments. What kind of different mutants can we have really. How many meters of intestines do we need to be more freaky. I can't really guess what will happen next. Could some closed up place be infested by zombies, with only our heroes inside? Hmmm. Yes now THAT would be VERY original. Like wow. And yes the story goes on in every chapter. And I thought they should write nothing at all in every installment. You are right about it all really. I will be thinking about the virus bit though. That one is tricky. Gee was it really finished? Because we all know that virii are like automobiles. Even if they are not finished you can roll them.

(ps: who is samuel? Shaft?)

hgblob
02-17-2004, 09:21 PM
Silent Hill, on the other hand, what purpose is their for James coming back? The man ran himself ragged in SH2. Why is he back in SH4? THe reason damn well better be good because unless it is, OMG, tehy hAvE rUiNeD SH4.


Except that James isn't in SH4. That's a new character, Henry.

jeremy_aerts
02-18-2004, 12:05 AM
Thanks dreamkin, i agree with everything you have to say about the silent hill series because it is true. Resident Evil's plot is stupid and has been over since the end of part 2. Also, deathstroke saying that the main story in silent hill is about a demon taking over a village proves that he knows very little about the plot and him stating that james will come back in part 4 also demonstartes how little he knows of it.

Also, i didn't find the remark of "pyscho" thel least bit humorous. It just wasn't good humour. But of course, you think the story in resident evil is the best, so i guess I shouldn't be judging what is good.

hahahhaha...ground troops...hahahaha...wow.

gearhound1
02-18-2004, 12:41 AM
it's just an opinion, man.

DeathStroke
02-18-2004, 08:17 AM
Posted by Dreamkin
snipped

Yeesh, curb the rage man and try to put paragraphs in your blob of text. It makes it easier to read. Firstly, I never said RE's plot was superior to SH's. I said it was on the same level. And you haven't given me one reason to think other wise.

Also, did I say that they had perfected the BOW's? That's one assumption you made all by yourself. Like it or not, countries would pay for disposable armies which was the entire crux of Umbrella's research.

Furthermore, you didn't even try disputing any of my claims beginning with the design philosophy tangent you went on which began all this. I'd highly advise you not to get into any more arguments until you figure out how to argue properly.

Posted by hgblob
Except that James isn't in SH4. That's a new character, Henry.

Yeah, ok, I know that now. All I looked at was the picture actually and made an assumption.

Posted by Jeremy Aerts
Also, deathstroke saying that the main story in silent hill is about a demon taking over a village proves that he knows very little about the plot and him stating that james will come back in part 4 also demonstartes how little he knows of it.

Oh, I think I've demonstrated quite well, that I know Silent Hill's plot. Especially the demon bit which was stated right in the first Silent Hill. You, on the other hand, didn't know that they discussed the psychology of the person that had the original mansion built despite playing through the original RE three times. Really, between you and me, I obviously know more about both series even if I haven't kept up to date with SH4.

And in any case, demon taking over Silent Hill and causing people illusions was the core plot point I was emphasizing. You two want to say that RE is all about Umbrella creating a virus and that's that. Well no, it isn't. That's the core plot point for the RE games thus far and it was moving towards a resolution.

I see I'm not going to get through to either of you and since you haven't addressed any of my points, this is my off ramp. I'm getting out of this argument since the main statement of this thread has already proven to be false.

Dreamkin
02-18-2004, 08:42 AM
Okay... All things aside. I think no one need to teach me how to argue. And in case I need to learn how to argue certainly you are not the person to teach me. Next time I'll highlight my text and place some hand drawn pictures in it too. Hell I can't believe I just took place in a discussion that compares resident evil's storyline with silent hill's. I must be tired. Anyway.. Again I say.. I was being stupid. You are right, I am wrong. Resident Evil is amazing.

Seska
02-18-2004, 09:10 AM
I have to disagree on some points, the only characters backgrounds we learn about in RE are the bad guys or the allies that somehow DIE. :p I didnt learn a whole deal more about Claire in CV. I did learn about the freakish blonde boss and his childhood though (I forget his name) and what processes he went through to become what he is.

DeathStroke, you say each RE game is another integral part of the puzzle to lreveal Umbrella's plan and the direction it is heading it. I strongly disagree. Every game has the same premise - Zombie overun lab/area. The only thing that changes are the circumstances of how that all came to pass.

For the love of God, its been 8 years since the original game came out and we are no closer now as we were at the end of RE1 to knowing where Umbrella is heading with all this. NOW after all this time we may get a plot advancement with RE4. Its about frickin' time, but lets not pretend that each new instalment of RE unveils critical new information for its gripping plot.

Silent Hill is different because each isntalment usually involves a catharthic journey of self-discovery for the main character. Harry found out the truth about his daughter and the link to SH. James returned to uncover a very big skeleton in his closet and deal with the guilt and pain of past forgotten actions. Heather discovers the truth of her childhood and birth.

What do we discover about SH? Very little. Thats not the point of the game. Its just a stage for deeply twisted individual to come to so they can deal with issues that need to be put to rest and discover some truth about themselves they do not want to face.

So which is better, SH or RE? Depends on your taste. Personally I prefer SH because its more about the characters in it and the suffering they go through for some sort of ultimate redemption, and a plot that leaves enough openings for you to ponder over the SH mythos.

RE is more about getting a minuscule scrap of plot that is more of a setup for the next instalment, which always has been the "lab overrun by zombies" scenario, and most of the monsters that appear in the RE games are explained away in some scientific diary about what sorta experiment went wrong. LEaves very little open to pondering and reflexion. I still enjoy RE for the survival horror action, however, but storywise I dont find it as intellectually engaging as SH.

Its a matter of taste and personal opinion, and we should learn to deal with the fact that some people like A and dome people like B. Oh, and RE *is* a ripoff. Off Alone in the Dark, as someone previously mentioned in this thread. ;)

Robo Halloween
02-18-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Seska
I have to disagree on some points, the only characters backgrounds we learn about in RE are the bad guys or the allies that somehow DIE. :p I didnt learn a whole deal more about Claire in CV. I did learn about the freakish blonde boss and his childhood though (I forget his name) and what processes he went through to become what he is.

That's b/c after playing RE2, there wasn't much needed to learn about Claire. Other than she is Chris' sister, likes motorcycles, she's in college, and she fights zombies.

What an amazing girl! Isn't she?

The only thing we need to learn is how she likes it, frontal or ass up facing the pillow? Hentai between her and Cheif Irons suggest she likes it frontal!

And there where too many blondes on CODE: Veronica. You had Super Sayian Wesker, Alexia Ashford and Alfred Ashford. And though I haven't finished CODE: Veronica myself to know, Wesker won't have time to reveal any tragedies in his childhood, so you have to be talking about The Ashfords.

DeathStroke, you say each RE game is another integral part of the puzzle to lreveal Umbrella's plan and the direction it is heading it. I strongly disagree. Every game has the same premise - Zombie overun lab/area. The only thing that changes are the circumstances of how that all came to pass.

For the love of God, its been 8 years since the original game came out and we are no closer now as we were at the end of RE1 to knowing where Umbrella is heading with all this. NOW after all this time we may get a plot advancement with RE4. Its about frickin' time, but lets not pretend that each new instalment of RE unveils critical new information for its gripping plot.

I'm hoping all the early ramblings about Umbrella gone in RE4 do come to pass. Maybe they should make an appearance, but not as instigators. The only thing that should have to do with Umbrella on RE4 is a special appearance by Hunk.

And remember, we haven't heard much of Spencer Corp. Other than the possibility of Birkin and Wesker being in bed with them and pissing off Umbrella and making all the horrfic events take place.

Silent Hill is different because each isntalment usually involves a catharthic journey of self-discovery for the main character.

After reading the word catharthic and remembering Pyramid Head's actions on SH2, I decided to not read the rest of the paragraph, sorry. X(

What do we discover about SH? Very little. Thats not the point of the game. Its just a stage for deeply twisted individual to come to so they can deal with issues that need to be put to rest and discover some truth about themselves they do not want to face.

So which is better, SH or RE? Depends on your taste. Personally I prefer SH because its more about the characters in it and the suffering they go through for some sort of ultimate redemption, and a plot that leaves enough openings for you to ponder over the SH mythos.

RE is more about getting a minuscule scrap of plot that is more of a setup for the next instalment, which always has been the "lab overrun by zombies" scenario, and most of the monsters that appear in the RE games are explained away in some scientific diary about what sorta experiment went wrong. LEaves very little open to pondering and reflexion. I still enjoy RE for the survival horror action, however, but storywise I dont find it as intellectually engaging as SH.


Well this is all very true, seeing as RE plays more like a b-movie ( with even hilarious dialogue! ) while SH plays like a bigger disturbing horror film that makes critics go bat****. And this applies to how the characters are presented aswell. Like I said about Claire, we don't need to learn anything else about her. She's not hiding anything, and neither is Capcom when developing a new game and abstaining from fucking it up and REVEALING A SHOCKING TRUTH ABOUT HER LIFE. She likes to ride motorcycles with younger girls, and that's how I like her! :cool guy:

Honestly, comparing storylines between SH and RE is like comparing Jacob's Ladder with...um...the actual RE movie.

I myself like both series, and to say that one is ripping off another in any shape or form is ridiculous.

Seska
02-18-2004, 10:04 AM
I agree, my point about Claire was just to argue with DeathStroke on the point that each RE game gives us more background info on the characters. Other than looks, gender and age, all RE main characters are pretty identical in that they are trying to get out of a nasty situation, and trying to get back at Umbrella. No more background/motivation/raison d'etre is needed or ever really given. :D

And yes, the blondes I mentioned were the Ashfords. Freakiest RE boss/es ever.

Mainstreme Fan
02-22-2004, 12:22 PM
Maybe Capcom getting back at Konami for the making the 3D castlevania too much like DMC.

Alucard
02-22-2004, 12:33 PM
Dont be silly. And it aint too much like DMC since DMC is a rip of Castlevania.

Dreamkin
02-22-2004, 02:00 PM
In fact DMC is more like Castlevania than Lament of Innocence is. Ahahah