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View Full Version : Billy Hatcher IGN Review.


Reality
09-20-2003, 12:27 AM
If you were to look at Capcom's support for the Xbox you might see a similarity to it in Sega's support for the GCN. Sonic Team or not here is the IGN score for their GCN only chicken game.

Closing Comments
Billy Hatcher may look stupid, but sit down with it for awhile and you might just like it anyway. I did and now I do. I state this knowing that the main character is dressed in a rooster suit and that some of his more compelling catch phrases are rubbish like, "Good morning!" Theme noted, the play mechanics in place in Hatcher's world are sound, and manipulating the many eggs, hatching them, and then siphoning their abilities, is enjoyable. The only problem for me is that the action is also repetitive -- a drawback that I concede younger players probably won't notice, let alone care about.

Hatcher is worth everyone's attention, though, not because it delivers an exceptional single-player experience, but because it serves up an addicting multiplayer one. The two-, three- and four-player arena battles in this game are extremely fun and satisfying. Try them and you'll be hooked.

A solid puzzle-platformer with some minor mechanical and technical shortcomings. Give it a rent to check out the multiplayer mode and to see if it's worth adding to your collection.

Presentation: 6.0
Buck-buck! How come a chicken has a fit every time we press the start button? Simple menus and not many options.

Graphics: 7.0
This is a very pretty Dreamcast game. Not a bad thing, but more could have been done. Production values seem low, too.

Sound: 4.0
There are fates worse than death. Listening to this game with the volume up very high may be one of them.

Gameplay: 7.0
Fun single-player game with flaws. Using eggs is great. Challenging puzzles. Some goal repetition. One odd control choice. Camera issues. Addicting multiplayer mode.

Lasting Appeal: 8.0
The multiplayer mode will hold your attention long after the single-player experience is forgotten.

OVERALL: 7.7

http://cube.ign.com/articles/450/450845p2.html

BashingU
09-20-2003, 12:44 AM
Sega has got to do a better job. It's games like this that bother me, but I also I have to look at who Billy Hatcher is aimed at. Which is to a younger audience, and this doesn't help nintendo's image of being an all inclusive company...Hopefully Sega and Nintendo will get it right with the next couple of games...

Joe Redifer
09-20-2003, 02:06 AM
When I saw the demo of this game on the GameCube demo disc, I kept thinking "Bleccchhh!". Especially the music. It's bad. Definitely not a game I could get in to. But every game can't be a winner. The hype machine for this one seems pretty low. I'm glad. I'm sure some people will love this game, though (bored people).

The Steved!
09-21-2003, 03:59 AM
Yuji Naka gets promoted and voil? u get Billy Hatcher! Don't tell me u think this is the "original" sonic team, the leader wasn't even with them!

Cobi*
09-21-2003, 04:07 AM
that sucks. i was expecting this one to be great ever since i first heard about it and saw the screen shots here on these forums. shame that it's not as great as i initially expected but it's probably still worth playing. lesson learned; don't judge a game by it's screenshots.

oh and the x-play preview of it didn't help much either. they called it "retarded" and "for 4-year-olds" =\

IoriYagami n8
09-21-2003, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by The Steved!
Yuji Naka gets promoted and voil? u get Billy Hatcher! Don't tell me u think this is the "original" sonic team, the leader wasn't even with them! Billy Hatcher has been in development quite some time before Yuji Naka was put in charge of AM2. Plus, no one was mentioned to be taking over for Sonic Team, so he could very well still be working with Sonic Team.

I'm sure despite it's flaws Billy Hatcher is an enjoyable game. It isn't to the equavilant of Nights or the older Sonic titles, but not everything will be. I can understand people getting annoyed with the kiddy feel of the game, and if that's the case, I certainly hope they didn't give Yoshi Story on N64 anything better. Oh, and I absolutely loved Yoshi Story by the way. Kiddy games make me feel like a kid again, so from time to time I will enjoy one. It's also the reason that I watch Hamtaro and Pokemon from time to time. Now there is good kiddy, as in something I can laugh about myself watching, and then there is bad kiddy, which is just something that has no redeeming value in style, these are usually things that are made for kids, but try to be mature. But that's just me, I can still see the enjoyment in cute noises, bright colors, and happy go ham ham music. Being reminded of my childhood is a rather nice experience, especailly with all the pressures of adult life looming overhead. Read the review, it has a few minor flaws such as repetative gameplay and camera angles, but he says himself that it is a solid gameplay experience and that the multiplayer is a lot of fun. What seems to have really hurt the game is the kiddy overview, but when you make a game that's aimed at younger players, it's to be expected. I didn't see people cutting back on GTA's scores because it was too mature.

retarted, and for 4 year olds...lol...and I'm sure GTA was unmatched genius for the hardcore mature gamer. The fact that they resort to such wording in their overview is a huge mark against any opinion they have. Good editorials simply don't do that. There is a reason your news paper doesn't read "Dumbass shoots himself in the foot." and instead says something along the lines of "Man shoots himself in the foot." Good editorials provide information and allow the reader to draw their own conclusions. A lot of people seem to bash Penny Arcade for using excessive language in their strips when they trash talk someone. Well, Penny Arcade is a comic strip, it's suppose to be funny, and using out of context language does that for some people.

As for BashingU's comments, I doubt Billy Hatcher will do much for the Gamecube image either way. Nintendo doesn't need every game out there to be rated T or higher. Mary Kate and Ashley didn't seem to make the PS2 a kiddy console. If people didn't take note of the Resident Evil games, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, and the various other titles that are available on other systems (BMX XXX, Bond: Agent Under Fire, ect) then I doubt there is much to be done. It's not a matter of saying "hey keep your kiddy crap off my system" but instead it's a matter of saying "hey put some mature stuff on my system too" which Nintendo has done, and no one seemed to notice. Why not? Because they had already made up their minds before the Gamecube even launched.

Magnus
09-21-2003, 08:10 AM
Funny that. Everyone calls the Cube kiddy and ignores the mature titles and now Microsoft want to target children and have built up a mature image. Hmmm.....

Cyclops
09-21-2003, 12:13 PM
That because narrow mined gamers are hyprocrepts.

Reality
09-21-2003, 12:31 PM
It also a matter on how you (the company) presents yourself. Nintendo presented it's self in the more in less kiddy fashion for it's first few years at launch. Then adding to that the OXM fuel to bash them even more only increased people to think that way even more.

gearhound1
09-21-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8


retarted, and for 4 year olds... The fact that they resort to such wording in their overview is a huge mark against any opinion they have. Good editorials simply don't do that.



that is very true. after seeing that, i look down on them as gaming journlists. it seems that x-play is filled with a bunch of little immature boys.:crazy:

DeathStroke
09-21-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by gearhound
it seems that x-play is filled with a bunch of little immature boys.:crazy:

That seems like a fair estimation of Adam Sessler. The guy grates on every last one of my nerves.

gearhound1
09-21-2003, 05:01 PM
7.7 is not a bad score at all.

BlueBoy42
09-21-2003, 06:40 PM
Adam can get alittle anoying... but his fudge comment was great.. that's where it ends, they shouldn't focus on him, but on the actual game reviews.

7.7 sounds like a decient review for BH.

oh, and when he threw the PS1 at Kevin.

Cobi*
09-22-2003, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by gearhound
that is very true. after seeing that, i look down on them as gaming journlists. it seems that x-play is filled with a bunch of little immature boys.:crazy:

well, to be fair, that was just a preview, not an actual review of the game... yeah, the comments were kinda immature but, on the other hand, it's really not a big deal so long as their initial impressions of the game hold little to no bearing on their final review of it.

i dunno, i find x-play's cynicism towards gaming in general kinda humorous :D

btw, "gaming journalist" should be an oxymoron :lol:

Cyclops
09-22-2003, 06:50 AM
I don`t find to wrong whit X-play. After all, their the ones who had the courage to say the PS line up was the weakest of all 3 systems. The 2 guys from Judgemant day on G4 are real jackasses.

Black Sugar
09-22-2003, 08:59 AM
A lot people seem to complain on how the game feel like kiddy because of the mani character. I think that Billy's design isn't that half bad really. If the game was in 2D (as the original Sonic we're) the Billy Hatcher wouldn't be much overlooked as it is now.

Personnally, After Mario 64, all other 3D platformer are all the same to me. Game designers need to think a little futher than this to make me throw 40 $ (70$ can) for a game. While Billy Hatcher do offer some new stuffs, I still feel that most these ideas are been borrowed from previous game such as Monkey Ball.

IoriYagami n8
09-22-2003, 10:08 AM
Just because they have the courage to state one opinion doesn't mean they can act unprofessional and everything be fine and dandy. You simply don't make comments like that in journalism unless you want people to think ill of you. You do more to discredit yourself and your opinions then you do to make the other person (or in this case game) look bad. After all, it takes a lot of intellect and courage to call a game like Billy Hatcher retarded because you don't seem to understand that kids play games as well. Not everything is going to attempt to be realistic or mature in theme. Not everything needs to be, and if it was, things would get very boring very fast.

And I fail to see any problem with gaming journalism, aside from those idiots that don't understand the journalism part of it. Which honestly makes me question if they even understand the gaming side of it, or are they just payed to look geeky and read lines?

DBJAY
09-22-2003, 11:22 AM
Adam Sessler's fav game of last year was Sly Cooper for the PS2, which doesn't target teen to adult market. So, I don't think his comments are out of line about Billy Hatcher if he can enjoy games like Sly Cooper.

Not all people will respond favorably towards a character design or a game concept. A 5 year old will have different tastes from a 13 year old, and a 13 year old will have different tastes from people in their twenties like the Morgan and Adam. That doesn't mean the game is bad, and indeed maybe a great game for certain age groups.

The reverse is also true. I'm sure there are many games out there that are big hits with older players that would bore younger players to death. Does that mean the older players are playing the better games and the young ones have bad taste? Does it mean the younger players views should be ignored in favor of the older players?

BashingU
09-22-2003, 01:17 PM
See here's Nintendo's problem. They expected to turn around an image of their system (Which no matter how you want to dress it up is aimed at kids) with five games. Not going to happen. If gamers weren't flocking to Sony's consoles nintendo would never had cared what the overall consumer market wants. Nintendo's problem started before microsoft entered the picture. It's based on their history. For god sake the system came in purple, blue and black. Nintendo had no intention of growing with the audience that purchased their nintendo, and super nes while at the same still cultivate a younger audience. Sony and Microsoft have capitalized on that. You can be upset at that but it's true. It is no different than Sega constantly producing hardware and not supporting it and dissapointing consumers. Which cost them to lose in the long run with a great system like the Dreamcast. Nintendo realizes this and that is why we are getting the Killer 7's Resdient Evils (created on the PS one) etc. So lets not turn a blind eye and act like a journalist is to blame. He reviewed Billy Hatcher and came to his conclusion. His oppinon counts, but he is one person trying to speak to a majority. There honestly is nothing wrong with games being made for a younger audience but you need to have a balance. Nintendo now is discovering that, and they know it.

IoriYagami n8
09-22-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by DBJAY
Adam Sessler's fav game of last year was Sly Cooper for the PS2, which doesn't target teen to adult market. So, I don't think his comments are out of line about Billy Hatcher if he can enjoy games like Sly Cooper.

Not all people will respond favorably towards a character design or a game concept. A 5 year old will have different tastes from a 13 year old, and a 13 year old will have different tastes from people in their twenties like the Morgan and Adam. That doesn't mean the game is bad, and indeed maybe a great game for certain age groups.

The reverse is also true. I'm sure there are many games out there that are big hits with older players that would bore younger players to death. Does that mean the older players are playing the better games and the young ones have bad taste? Does it mean the younger players views should be ignored in favor of the older players? Your missing what I'm saying. I'm not saying he has no right to his own opinion. What I am saying is that his comments are out of line for a journalist, especailly considering it was a preview. Weither he can enjoy a game targeted at a younger audience isn't the point of fault, it's that he says a game looks retarded. It simply isn't a smart way to say something in journalism, let alone say when you have yet to really try to the game and are just basing your assumptions on it's appearence. The comment would be out of line if it was any kind of game. Bad journalism techniques just go to discredit a lot of what you say. You wouldn't think of your 6 o'clock news as being a legitamate source of news if it wasn't professionally done. Leave snide comments like that to the idiots, in journalism it's expected that you do better. Like I said, it isn't that he didn't think favorablely about the game, it's his delivery that simply makes him look like he really doesn't have any idea what he is talking about.

Vicviper
09-22-2003, 04:42 PM
I agree with Iori.

It's fine that the guy didn't like the game and thought it was childish but there is a more professional way for him to state his opinion instead of saying "it's retarded". In all honesty it makes him look like he's retarded and completely ignorant. He's in a professional line of work so there for he should talk and type like a professional instead of like a junior high school student.

Joe Redifer
09-22-2003, 06:59 PM
Wow. To be quite honest I didn't even notice that Billy Hatcher was aimed at kids. I guess I don't pay attention to that anymore unless it is "in yo face" obvious. If a game that is designed to appeal to a younger audience is fun, then I enjoy it as well.

I still am not gonna buy any Barbie, Barney, or Mary Kate and Ashley games, though. :)

Bad1
09-22-2003, 07:51 PM
I'm with Joe. I don't even notice if a game is aimed at a younger audience(unless it just slaps you in the face). I have had several instances that the clerks at the stores ask me if I am bying the game for my kid. Then I have to tell them I don't have any kids. Then they get that, if I say anything else this guy is going to eat me for lunch, look on there face.(probably cause I look like I'm angry all the time) It happens at EB alot.:lol:

(why is :lol: the LOL emote, when it should obviosly be the new:haha: ?)

Magnus
09-22-2003, 08:03 PM
Kiddy games arent a problem for me when I buy games. My problem is when I go to pay for a GCN game for me and a PS2 game for my brother and the clerks look at me condensendingly and say "You realise that this is a Gamecube game dont you?"
Bastards!

I also dont notice kiddy games very much anymore, and frankly, I dont care if they are aimed at kids as long as I get enjoyment.

gearhound1
09-22-2003, 08:04 PM
well, i am with viv, bad1, and iori. i would never write a review for a game deeming it "retarded," nor would i ignore a game because i think it is for kids. i really want to check out billy hatcher. if i like, it will buy it:)

Cyclops
09-23-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by DBJAY

The reverse is also true. I'm sure there are many games out there that are big hits with older players that would bore younger players to death. Does that mean the older players are playing the better games and the young ones have bad taste? Does it mean the younger players views should be ignored in favor of the older players?


Well. When a person is young, they are knew to do stupid things.

The Steved!
09-23-2003, 12:47 PM
Listen guys seriously I thought the demo sucked big time just because of the music and incoherent speed factor while playing the game. Billy goes kind of fast but isn't controlled well. Anyways my point is that when Sonic got out it wasn't label has a kiddy game there was no doubt about that, Sonic was cool and had an attitude:haha: But seriously why would I play Billy hatcher to hear those roosters which I could'nt stand in the demo...

Dr. Bombay
09-23-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Cyclops
I don`t find to wrong whit X-play. After all, their the ones who had the courage to say the PS line up was the weakest of all 3 systems. The 2 guys from Judgemant day on G4 are real jackasses.

That being said though, it's fair to say that X-Play is better then pretty much every show on G4, which is sad.

The only shows that make me not want to bore out my brain out with a pneumonic drill was Arena and the Show that looks at the history of gaming.

But G-Phoria felt like a strike against my physcial person.

IoriYagami n8
09-23-2003, 02:19 PM
That isn't saying much since G4 is crap.

And Steved! I dont Know why you would play Billy Hatcher, other then the idea that it might be enjoyable. I don't know about other people, but that's the only reason I bother to play anything. I can forgive the annoyance of clucking chickens, especailly with all the hours of my life wasted making the Cukoos things in Zelda cry for mercy. As a result I'm generally immune to a few cluck in a menu.

Black Sugar
09-23-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
That isn't saying much since G4 is crap.

And Steved! I dont Know why you would play Billy Hatcher, other then the idea that it might be enjoyable. I don't know about other people, but that's the only reason I bother to play anything. I can forgive the annoyance of clucking chickens, especailly with all the hours of my life wasted making the Cukoos things in Zelda cry for mercy. As a result I'm generally immune to a few cluck in a menu.
I am sorry, but I was expecting way more from Sonic Team when I played the demo.

IoriYagami n8
09-24-2003, 12:05 PM
When you go in expecting one thing, you will almost assuredly be disappointed. Expectations are not the fault of Sonic Team. That isn't to say it is without improvement, but simply that when you set standards, your setting yourself up to be let down. One of the reasons Nights is looked on so well was because it wasn't very publicized, people weren't expecting the next Sonic the Hedgehog. So when they finally did get to check it out or hear of it, it was quite positive. Gaming these days gets much more attention. But essentailly, you have only yourself to blame when a game doesn't meet your standards.

Cyclops
10-01-2003, 07:17 AM
http://www.ultimategamez.com/extras/specials/billyhatcherroundtable.shtml

Magnus
10-01-2003, 07:55 AM
My advice to Sega is: Bring back Wonder Boy, Alex Kidd, Fantasy Zone and Zillion. Make a brand new Phantasy Star epic RPG, but this time focus on it being offline. Bring perfectly suited titles like Shenmue, Virtua Fighter, Rez, Jet Grind Radio, Sakura Wars and Samba De Amigo to the GameCube where they belong. Lastly, Sega and Nintendo share a lot of the same characteristics and in the long-term outlook Sega should rethink their current multi-platform dilution of gaming properties and consider working more closely with Nintendo on all fronts (including hardware).

I agree with that totally. Sega is probably better to stick with one party and Nintendo do seem best suited to them. Unfortunantly, business just isnt big enough for Nintendo to have Sega justify exclusive development on it. Hopefully next generation we will see that happening

The Steved!
10-01-2003, 10:28 AM
Look Billy Hatcher sucks cause Yuji Naka is making twelve things at once! But when u put a name on a game like Sonic Team, yes I admit I do expect something from the game.But I don't expect the moon, I expect good controls and having fun by playing the game the same level of fun i had from playing a Sonic back in the days. Billy is ugly I would want to kick is tiny ass if i saw a mascot of him in real life. Being original is good but not to original u know. So basicly that's what i mean Billy Hatcher wasn't made for guys like me but i know all sort of game that weren't made for me that I enjoyed playing also. I think it's the first time a Sonic Team scored so low. I would rather play Mario 64 then start a game of Billy Hatcher and the stupid eggs!

gearhound1
10-01-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by The Steved!
Look Billy Hatcher sucks cause Yuji Naka is making twelve things at once! But when u put a name on a game like Sonic Team, yes I admit I do expect something from the game.But I don't expect the moon, I expect good controls and having fun by playing the game the same level of fun i had from playing a Sonic back in the games. Billy is ugly I would want to kick is tiny ass if i saw a mascot of him in real life. Being original is good but not to original u know. So basicly that's what i mean Billy Hatcher wasn't made for guys like me but i know all sort of game that weren't made for me that I enjoyed playing also. I think it's the first time a Sonic Team scored so low. I would rather play Mario 64 then start a game of Billy Hatcher and the stupid eggs!

:haha:

j_factor
10-01-2003, 08:27 PM
I like Billy Hatcher. It's lots of fun.

:)

IoriYagami n8
10-01-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by gearhound
:haha: That's a more dignified response then anything I could think of.

Cyclops
10-02-2003, 06:42 AM
The steved is everything those guys say about ignorant gamers.

gearhound1
10-02-2003, 04:28 PM
i am going to buy billy hatcher just to make the steved angry. not to mention i love games developed by sonic team.

The Steved!
10-02-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Cyclops
The steved is everything those guys say about ignorant gamers.

:haha: Now coming from the other guys I can take it but coming from u Cyclops I'm sorry but it just doesn't seem to affect me knowing that there is always someone more ignorant then urself, in this case that's u! Now go play Broken Product Number03...

As for Iori And Bitchound, there is two thing to take into account when discussing about a Sonic Team game. First is WHY second is also WHY. For instance, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, a question u could ask urself is WHY did they rerealease it on the GC cause Sonic is a class A caracter that sells and WHY cause it is a fast way to make money with the GC market at the time. Now another example, Billy Hatcher and the Gian Egg, u could ask urslef WHY IN THE BLUE HELL WERE THEY THINKING TO PUT A SYNICAL BOY THAT THINKS IS A ROOSTER IN A GAME WHEN EVERYBODY IS ASKING FOR A SECOND NIGHTS cause Yuji Naka had nothing to do with the game and WHY did it have to suck that much cuz it just does! Now the game smells like been there done that from the begining and u know something I've played it and it still smell like been there done that! So my opinion on this is kids are going to love it but for me it's like what Banjo Kazooi is to Donkey Kong 64. I don't thinl I need to discuss about that. So weither u like it or not u need to expect somehting from them! Imagine if Zelda came out and suck would u say " well give them a break u were expecting too much" PALEASE!

IoriYagami n8
10-04-2003, 06:19 PM
Nights is much better? Have you even played Nights? The character is some gymnastic acrobat jester. This is better then a kid in a rooster outfit why? As for why there isn't a second Nights, it's because Yuji Naka himself stated that he wouldn't do one. He said Nights is a very unique game, and there hasn't been one like it, he intends to keep it that way. There reason you haven't seen another Nights is because he has kept to his word. For a game Yuji Naka had nothing to do with, he certainly did a good amount of interviews about it. And please, inform me of these 12 other things he is doing. And the fact that Billy Hatcher sucks because "it does" is probably the dumbest thing you've said yet. This board needs a smiley of some retarded kid in a wheel chair so that I can use it for times like this. Keep up the good work Timmy.

Black Sugar
10-07-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
When you go in expecting one thing, you will almost assuredly be disappointed. Expectations are not the fault of Sonic Team. That isn't to say it is without improvement, but simply that when you set standards, your setting yourself up to be let down. One of the reasons Nights is looked on so well was because it wasn't very publicized, people weren't expecting the next Sonic the Hedgehog. So when they finally did get to check it out or hear of it, it was quite positive. Gaming these days gets much more attention. But essentailly, you have only yourself to blame when a game doesn't meet your standards.

I don't agree with you.

We're expecting more from Sonic Team because they prove themself in the past that they can do better games than this one. If you told me that Billy Hatcher was developed by... let me see, Atlus, I wouldn't gave my hopes that high. See what trying to say ?!

Reality
10-07-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Black Bahamut
I don't agree with you.

We're expecting more from Sonic Team because they prove themself in the past that they can do better games than this one. If you told me that Billy Hatcher was developed by... let me see, Atlus, I wouldn't gave my hopes that high. See what trying to say ?!

I know 100% what your saying here and I agree. the game had "from the makers of Sonic the Hedgehog" all over the ads, trailers ect. The whole purpose in that is to promote he game wit the idea it is equally great as Sonic.

IoriYagami n8
10-07-2003, 08:52 PM
Of course they have done better. Just about everytime you look at a companies latest offerings you can think of something they have done before that was better. Mario 3 is still the best Mario game ever made as far as I'm concerned, but do I let that ruin my enjoyment of Mario World or Mario 64? A bar can only be set so high. By that I mean that you can only go so far before things just don't improve on much, if at all. You don't see any real progress in a lot of games these days. You can't expect every game a developer makes to be their greatest work, or to your liking. When a developer makes a new game, something that doesn't build off of a previous installment they always start over. You expect Billy Hatcher to be as good as something like Nights, but you don't seem to understand what little they have in common. Maybe if we were talking about Nights 2 I could understand if a game failed to meet expectations. You expect Nights 2 to be as good as Nights was, or so forth. I didn't think much of Sonic Adventure 2, as I see that it failed to compare to Sonic Adventure. But I still played the game, I still own it, and I still enjoy it from time to time. Not every game has to be the second coming of Super Mario Brothers (the equivilent to gaming Jesus) to be enjoyed. Because you keep expecting more and more from developers and don't take something for what it is you only disappoint yourself. Suppose you cooked a pizza for me, best one I've ever had in my life. So is it expect that the next pizza you cook will be just as good, or better? Maybe you want to try something different, use a different cheese or something. Maybe it taste like butt. When you try something different, you aren't always going to have the same quality as something before it. That's why it's rather unfair that you expect more from a developer when they do something new. Billy Hatcher can't be measured with the same stick you measure Sonic with, or so forth, because it isn't Sonic. Did you expect a game like Phantasy Star Online to be just as good if not better then Phantasy Star IV? Probably not, becuase you see that they are two different things. You can be as disappointed as you like, but it's not something you can blame Sonic Team for, they were just trying something different. You can blame yourself for expecting so much of something new however. It's an unrealistic look out to continue to expect people to excel more so if not equal to their past. If this was the case then I'm sure the world would be a much nicer place.

The Steved!
10-07-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
Of course they have done better. Just about everytime you look at a companies latest offerings you can think of something they have done before that was better. Mario 3 is still the best Mario game ever made as far as I'm concerned, but do I let that ruin my enjoyment of Mario World or Mario 64? A bar can only be set so high. By that I mean that you can only go so far before things just don't improve on much, if at all. You don't see any real progress in a lot of games these days. You can't expect every game a developer makes to be their greatest work, or to your liking. When a developer makes a new game, something that doesn't build off of a previous installment they always start over. You expect Billy Hatcher to be as good as something like Nights, but you don't seem to understand what little they have in common. Maybe if we were talking about Nights 2 I could understand if a game failed to meet expectations. You expect Nights 2 to be as good as Nights was, or so forth. I didn't think much of Sonic Adventure 2, as I see that it failed to compare to Sonic Adventure. But I still played the game, I still own it, and I still enjoy it from time to time. Not every game has to be the second coming of Super Mario Brothers (the equivilent to gaming Jesus) to be enjoyed. Because you keep expecting more and more from developers and don't take something for what it is you only disappoint yourself. Suppose you cooked a pizza for me, best one I've ever had in my life. So is it expect that the next pizza you cook will be just as good, or better? Maybe you want to try something different, use a different cheese or something. Maybe it taste like butt. When you try something different, you aren't always going to have the same quality as something before it. That's why it's rather unfair that you expect more from a developer when they do something new. Billy Hatcher can't be measured with the same stick you measure Sonic with, or so forth, because it isn't Sonic. Did you expect a game like Phantasy Star Online to be just as good if not better then Phantasy Star IV? Probably not, becuase you see that they are two different things. You can be as disappointed as you like, but it's not something you can blame Sonic Team for, they were just trying something different. You can blame yourself for expecting so much of something new however. It's an unrealistic look out to continue to expect people to excel more so if not equal to their past. If this was the case then I'm sure the world would be a much nicer place.

So basicly ur saying that the game is ok, and we shouldn't be expecting the same quality in their games when they're trying something new...So if I understand what ur saying is that owners of an Acura Integra have no reason to expect something from its sucessor the RSX cause they're trying something new? We don't expect the same quality cause it's a new model? We always expect something in everything that's why they use their name to promote the damn game!

IoriYagami n8
10-08-2003, 01:15 AM
You almost come close to proving a point, but you forget something. Define quality.

Black Sugar
10-08-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
Of course they have done better. Just about everytime you look at a companies latest offerings you can think of something they have done before that was better. Mario 3 is still the best Mario game ever made as far as I'm concerned, but do I let that ruin my enjoyment of Mario World or Mario 64? A bar can only be set so high. By that I mean that you can only go so far before things just don't improve on much, if at all. You don't see any real progress in a lot of games these days. You can't expect every game a developer makes to be their greatest work, or to your liking. When a developer makes a new game, something that doesn't build off of a previous installment they always start over. You expect Billy Hatcher to be as good as something like Nights, but you don't seem to understand what little they have in common. Maybe if we were talking about Nights 2 I could understand if a game failed to meet expectations. You expect Nights 2 to be as good as Nights was, or so forth. I didn't think much of Sonic Adventure 2, as I see that it failed to compare to Sonic Adventure. But I still played the game, I still own it, and I still enjoy it from time to time. Not every game has to be the second coming of Super Mario Brothers (the equivilent to gaming Jesus) to be enjoyed. Because you keep expecting more and more from developers and don't take something for what it is you only disappoint yourself. Suppose you cooked a pizza for me, best one I've ever had in my life. So is it expect that the next pizza you cook will be just as good, or better? Maybe you want to try something different, use a different cheese or something. Maybe it taste like butt. When you try something different, you aren't always going to have the same quality as something before it. That's why it's rather unfair that you expect more from a developer when they do something new. Billy Hatcher can't be measured with the same stick you measure Sonic with, or so forth, because it isn't Sonic. Did you expect a game like Phantasy Star Online to be just as good if not better then Phantasy Star IV? Probably not, becuase you see that they are two different things. You can be as disappointed as you like, but it's not something you can blame Sonic Team for, they were just trying something different. You can blame yourself for expecting so much of something new however. It's an unrealistic look out to continue to expect people to excel more so if not equal to their past. If this was the case then I'm sure the world would be a much nicer place.

I understand your point in overall. But I still hold my point that they could have done better. As a example, sure, Mario Bros. 3 is one of the best Mario game ever. But Mario 64 was, maybe different ,but stilloffer the same kind of quality contents you would expect from Miyamoto. Billy Hatcher would need a little more R&D.

Again, when I heard that Treasure is working on a new shooter game such as the new Gradius, I will expect the same kind of quality game i've seen in the past.

By quality, I mean a entertaining, beautiful, polish game. Billy Hatcher become repetitive quite rapidly with a lot of collision problem along the way just to name a few. Same can be say by Mario Sunshine with his some akward camera problem.

Billy Hatcher isn't that bad, mind you but it could be a way lot better than this.

IoriYagami n8
10-08-2003, 03:51 PM
That's odd, because Sonic is more so repetative then Billy Hatcher. Run through stage, reach goal. Rinse and repeat. Sonic doesn't even give you puzzles and such to solve. Nights? The whole game all you did was fly through rings collecting spheres, when you were done, you did it over again only in a different pattern with different views. The reason those were fun was because of the way they played. They were just fun to sit down and play. What isn't beautiful about Billy Hatcher? The chicken suit? So blue hedgehogs are more beautiful then chicken suits? Or is it that the graphics aren't up to your standards? Sonic isn't exactly known for it's amazing quality in graphics. Billy Hatcher has fewer camera issues then 3D Sonic games, and less in the manner of collision problems then any as well. I'd like to know of some of these problems in collusion detection, as I have yet to encounter them.

The Steved!
10-08-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
That's odd, because Sonic is more so repetative then Billy Hatcher. Run through stage, reach goal. Rinse and repeat. Sonic doesn't even give you puzzles and such to solve.

Yeah but that's Sonic!:confused:

I never like 3D sonic games in fact I hate them! I just bought them because of the story and two times I was disapointed! Look at Sonic Heroes NO SENSE even less than sonic adventure 2! Look I already can declare that I will not buy Sonic Heroes!Well about the no puzzle thing why do u think they've put knucles in it with that emerald peices thing.

Billy Hatcher is not what Sonic Team can do best and don't start with the ?those ganes are too basic? thing cause Billy Hatcher and the giant egg is also redondant!

IoriYagami n8
10-08-2003, 04:59 PM
Redundant is just a fancy word for repetative when used in that context, in which case I refer you to my previous statement. And you can apply that to 2D Sonic as well. What makes the first stage so different from the second one? Only design. You still run through, and you still collect rings, and you still find the goal. Same thing, different path.

The Steved!
10-08-2003, 05:19 PM
True! I agree! Now discribe Billy's game!

Black Sugar
10-08-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
Redundant is just a fancy word for repetative when used in that context, in which case I refer you to my previous statement. And you can apply that to 2D Sonic as well. What makes the first stage so different from the second one? Only design. You still run through, and you still collect rings, and you still find the goal. Same thing, different path.
Well you seem to be the only one who believe that Billy Hatcher is the same caliber has Sonic or Nights was. The game receive a pretty average review by game websites and most people also think that Sega could have done better than that... me included. The game isn't has fun to play as the 2D Sonic or Nights , i'm sorry !

IoriYagami n8
10-08-2003, 10:25 PM
Whoa, I never said it was up to the calibur of 2D Sonic games or Nights. I simply said that the reasons you are giving me for your contempt and disappointment in the title can also be said of those games. The reason you don't enjoy Billy Hatcher as much is because of the style of game. The kiddie look and so forth. It is in presentation, not redundancy, not quality of graphics or prgramming, and so on. Billy Hatcher does what it was made to do, provide good simple fun. And I have yet to find a review that said the game was anything less. But my point is that it isn't Sonic Team to blame. You expected Billy Hatcher to be something it wasn't going to be, something it wasn't intended to be. Think about what you liked about Sonic and Nights, those kind of games, and then think of what you expected from Billy Hatcher. Then look at it objectively.

Reality
10-08-2003, 11:34 PM
You know that's a good point there and just to ask a friendly question do you think by placing on the game's covers, ad ect it's from the Maker of Sonic. It is to give the majority of the people who read it the wrong impressions one what the game be like?

Black Sugar
10-09-2003, 08:30 AM
Sorry if I misundertood you IoriYagami n8. But how can you say that "You expected Billy Hatcher to be something it wasn't going to be, something it wasn't intended to be" ?

It wasn't intended to be ? The only person who can actually quote that is the main producer of the game ! You and me are in no position to say these kind of thing, we can't read the producer mind.


As Realty quotes, placing on the game's covers,"it's from the Maker of Sonic" can give Sonic Team fans the wrong impressions one what the game be like to a certain extend .


But I understand your point.

j_factor
10-10-2003, 09:10 PM
I can understand if you're disappointed in Billy Hatcher, but it's certainly not repetitive. At all.

Escaflowne2001
10-11-2003, 05:11 AM
Bah! the games looking pretty crappy to be honest. and with the first day sales in Japan looks like they think the same.

Cyclops
10-11-2003, 07:57 AM
So any game that don`t do well in japan is bad Escflowne?

Escaflowne2001
10-11-2003, 09:43 AM
Did I say that NO!! can you read NO!!:annoyed:

Dead Account 01
10-11-2003, 01:51 PM
FYI, Bill Hatcher sold just barely more than 3,000 copies on its first day in Japan.

Ouch.

Black Sugar
10-11-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Decado
FYI, Bill Hatcher sold just barely more than 3,000 copies on its first day in Japan.

Ouch.
Aynthing else to add IoriYagami n8 ???.....:sing:

The Steved!
10-11-2003, 03:19 PM
Me personnaly I don't give a rats' ass that the game didn't sell in Japan or N-A. I was talking about the game itself! and it can only mean that they lost contact with the demand! 3000 copies...that's sad...

Dead Account 01
10-11-2003, 03:48 PM
What demand? The game had an 18% sell-through rate...the worst of any game released that day.

The game doesn't sound that great...but it probably deserves to sell better than that.

The Steved!
10-11-2003, 04:49 PM
Demand = making something the consummer needs or will want to buy in a really near future...Billy had none of those!

IoriYagami n8
10-11-2003, 11:19 PM
Sure. DDR Extreme only sold about 4,000 copies in it's first day and it's on a system with a much larger user base. There was only one game that sold more then 4,500 that released on that day. Billy Hatcher was the only non-PS2 release on that list. And this is after all only one day of sales. You might want to check into other games that sold about the same on their first day, you might be suprised with what you find. People jumped all over the FF:CC review scores without think much, but didn't seem to remember games like FFT and FFX-2 got the same kind of scores. In essense, look before you leap. I would expect Billy Hatcher to sell about the same as Monkey Ball 2. Not a game that blows one out of the water, but good simply fun.

Dead Account 01
10-12-2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by IoriYagami n8
Sure. DDR Extreme only sold about 4,000 copies in it's first day and it's on a system with a much larger user base. Yup, but then it is just some sort of expansion and the game had a much higher sell-through rate.

And this is after all only one day of sales. In Japan the first day of sales makes up for nearly half of the total sales. It varies depending on the title...but not by very much. For some reason, in Japan, if you don't make a big impact immediately you're screwed. It is somewhat similar in N. America and in Europe, but I've seen more titles snowball than in Japan.

I would expect Billy Hatcher to sell about the same as Monkey Ball 2. It won't. Not even close. Maybe 10k copies.

Anyway, doesn't really matter. It'll probably do much better in N. America and it isn't like it looks like it was expensive to make.

IoriYagami n8
10-12-2003, 05:38 PM
DDR Extreme is not some sort of expansion. And sell through only shows that they shipped more copies of Billy Hatcher then they did DDR Extreme. In the end, more Gamecube owners own Billy Hatcher then PS2 owners do DDR Extreme.

Escaflowne2001
10-12-2003, 05:47 PM
No, it shows SEGA were expecting higher sells then they got.

IoriYagami n8
10-12-2003, 09:39 PM
I won't bother to post the same thing in the other thread that you mention this, but we have been over this before. A company may expect higher sales, and that's fine, but as long as the game breaks even to the investment from the company it isn't a failure. Failures lose money in the world of business. It's much to early to tell if Billy Hatcher will sell enough in it's shelf life to make the money back, but it's a pretty safe bet that it will, even if it doesn't bring in much profit.

Escaflowne2001
10-13-2003, 03:42 AM
If it only makes them a small profit then it's hardly a "Success" better then making a loss but... eitherway it probs will small better in NA/EU.

Cyclops
10-15-2003, 07:47 AM
like FF online on the PS2?:P

gearhound1
10-15-2003, 03:23 PM
that has yet to be released outside of japan.

Escaflowne2001
10-15-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Cyclops
like FF online on the PS2?:P

Yep, like FFXI. :cool guy: