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Seska
08-09-2003, 12:42 PM
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/562317.asp

5.1 score from gamespot - OW!
6.5 from IGN - OOH!
The Best score it got was a 7/10, so maybe all you people who were thinking of buying it might better rent it first. As those funny guys from PA say:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20030808l.gif

Black Ace
08-09-2003, 01:09 PM
Crapbomb, Crapcom, Crapcon, Crap-a-ton. DOOM3D!!1!

Nindalf
08-09-2003, 01:14 PM
Arent we being clever today ;)

Anyway, its avarage is over 70, so its not exactly the spawn of satan. Then again, not exactly a masterpiece.

Shows Capcom not to support PS2 and give all games for GC!(Expect the crappy ones like this game)

(Wow, I just made 6 or so typos in such a sort post, with my luck there will be few in this edit.)

Escaflowne2001
08-09-2003, 02:28 PM
lol, I bet PN03 scores less then that eitherway IGN a pretty crap on there reviews, I'll be still getting it.

Rubeus
08-09-2003, 02:39 PM
I know it is going to bomb because the Jap version was doing so bad that it didn't even reach 100,000 copies before it dropped out of Top 30.

Seska
08-09-2003, 02:43 PM
Eh, I dont think it ahs anything to do with PS2, Crapcom has been multiplatformally crap since Devil May Cry 1. That Cel Shaded Car game, PN03, DMC2, the straight GC ports of RE 2, 3 and Code Veronica, and now Chaos LEgion is added to a host of very average games. The only saving grace is Viewtiful Joe. I hope Onimusha 3 dont turn out crap as well, but I already dislike the idea of samurai and oni vs swat teams. :crazy:

Escaflowne2001
08-09-2003, 03:00 PM
BoF5 was/will be good anyhow it isn't the sort of game to sell in japan it's a western genre.

Sinful Sam
08-09-2003, 03:39 PM
Chaos Legion been receiving some so-so and good reviews. http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/562317.asp I heard the game is pretty short and it gets repetitive. I?ll probably get it later, but right now there some other games I?m looking forward for to.

Viewtiful Joe should be good. Didn?t Famitsu gave it like a 32/40?

Nindalf
08-09-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Seska
Eh, I dont think it ahs anything to do with PS2, Crapcom has been multiplatformally crap since Devil May Cry 1. That Cel Shaded Car game, PN03, DMC2, the straight GC ports of RE 2, 3 and Code Veronica, and now Chaos LEgion is added to a host of very average games. The only saving grace is Viewtiful Joe.

Please, could someone direct the attention of the gerbil to Killer 7 and RE4? :sing:

Anyhow, what is BoF5? Breath of Fire? Is there 5 of them already? Good lord what blatant milking...

And if BoF is some decade old quality serie, I never said that

DeathStroke
08-09-2003, 04:01 PM
I think the recent crop of Capcom games were all rushed out to offset their financial woes from last year. Hopefully, starting from Viewtiful Joe, the quality will pick up again because right now, it is getting pretty bad.

That said, RE4 looks great. Hopefully Capcom will keep their promises about revamping the game's control.

SpaceManSpiff
08-09-2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by NiN
(Wow, I just made 6 or so typos in such a sort post, with my luck there will be few in this edit.)


sort should be short.

Nindalf
08-09-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by SpaceManSpiff
sort should be short.

Wondering in your sig should be wandering.

Thank you for pointing that out, but I dont bother to edit it again.

Escaflowne2001
08-09-2003, 04:52 PM
No, nin BOF5 isn't milking Resident Evil series is the biggest milk ever and I mean even director's cut and dual shock versions WTF?

Seska
08-09-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by NiN
Please, could someone direct the attention of the gerbil to Killer 7 and RE4? :sing:

Hello, fanboy.

If I remeber correctly, people raved about PN03 before it came out. Who is to say Killer 7 wont be another dud? Plus we are discussing games ALREADY released, not future games.

Perhaps I need to specify and talk in rodent moon language so you can understand what is being debated here:

?$&*@#? "^%& ""@;~+~ %?&! ?"4^ ?"$" $?\|$"%2 "? @

Now, if you wish to open your mouth again and look like a total fanboy tard, proceed, human.

Nindalf
08-09-2003, 05:57 PM
I usually dont open my mouth while writing...

Seska, Im just joking, and I?m deeply sorry if I have someway offended you.

Cobi*
08-09-2003, 10:51 PM
:haha: that's right NiN don't mess with the Seska!


what on earth is going on at capcom?! resident evil 4 and onimusha 3 had better not end up being duds...

i actually thought chaos legions was going to good. i'll at least give it a shot but i'm not expecting much from it anymore.

gearhound1
08-09-2003, 11:11 PM
resident evil 4 will be fantastic.

Alucard
08-10-2003, 03:00 AM
bah, NiN ignore what Seska said. He's blatantly against Capcom in every way possible. Lets ignore all the good games and just focus on the bad ones. You dont call someone a fanboy because they like a few Capcom games. Thats not right.

I'm not the biggest Capcom fan. Any SNK fan pretty much doesn't like Capcom. Hardcore SNK fan that is. That being ME! While I find some games like Chaos Legion, BOF, Auto Modelista and RE3 to be ABSOLUTE CRAP!, theres other games that are just as excellent like MArvel vs Capcom, Capcom vs SNK, RE 0, etc., I've got HIGH hopes for Killer 7, whatever that game is called thats got ROSE in the title, and RE4 to name a few. Dino Crisis 3 looks unreal also, and I'm no fan of the series.

Basically lets take into account the AMOUNT of games Capcom makes. Say they make 20 a year. Maybe 1/3 of them turn out to be legendary. Thats a LITTLE better then SQUARES BS 1 game a year which is average. Name their best title each year and I'll name 2 or more that are better hands down. I'm purposely picking Square here cause Seska is a FF/Square whore! Mock one persons likes and it'll come straight back at you! In the end Konami owns both of them. :sing:

They never actually raved about PN03. It was just one of the few games for the GC that Capcom kept plugging. Its a straight forward shooter type game with a dancing girl. Obviously anyone thinking this game is going to be deep and the greatest game ever made has serious issues. The game got good scores and is most likely fun to play. I plan to give it a shot. But Killer 7 is ALL about story and mood/atmosphere.

Seska
08-10-2003, 03:52 AM
Very well then, lets do the anal thing and draw up a list.

Gamecube:
P.N. 03
Resident Evil Code Veronica X
Viewtiful Joe
Mega Man? Network Transmisson
Resident Evil Zero
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3 Nemesis
Capcom vs. SNK 2 E.O.
Resident Evil
Tube Slider for Game Cube

Xbox:
Group S Challenge
Steel Battalion
Dino Crisis 3
Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO
Genma Onimusha
Marvel vs. Capcom 2

PS2:
Chaos Legion
Resident Evil Dead Aim
Clock Tower 3
auto modellista
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
EVERBLUE 2
Devil May Cry 2
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny
Dino Stalker
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory
Devil May Cry
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Street Fighter EX3
Onimusha: Warlords
Resident Evil Code: Veronica X

Total Games: 32

Very well. Now lets filter through that lsit and take out the QUALITY games worth purchasing:

Devil May Cry
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Steel Battalion
Onimusha 1
Dino crisis 3
RE 0
Viewtiful Joe

7 games - Two of which havent been released outside japan, one which costs 199 bucks and is sold out. That leaves us with, so far, the grand total 4 truly awesome games, and I even included one of your beloved fighting games, though to me they are all rehashes and retreads with new scenarios and characters thrown in. Ken threw fireballs and uppercuts in SF2, and he still does today. Whooppee.

Sorry if my limited mind cannot conceive the infinite intricaies and depths of having 25 different SF-type games and every one of them being "different" "new" and "awesome" as the fans love to put it. I call it "Milking".

Capcom is a good company, no doubt, I wouldnt own RE0 if I were a Capcom-hating fanboy, as you claim. But I take what I see, and I draw my conclusions, Capcom have a HORRIBLE trend to milk like bastards any mildly successful franchise of theirs and in the process spoil it. Just look at the number of RE Dead Aim/ Gun Survivor spinoffs. Have you actually even tried play one? I have. I'd rather gouge my own eyes out with a rusty fork than play that stuff.

Sure, things in the future may be better with Killer 7 coming along, and Viewtiful Joe, and RE4 DOES look very nice.

But Ill bet you my GC that we will see at least 2 sequels for Viewtiful, and at least one for Killer 7 if its even mildly successful. Look what they are doing to Onimusha, they claimed 3 would be the final and they are already thinking of making a new onimusha trilogy, only without the Onimusha name - so they can stick to their promise. Bleah.

So forgive me if I am sceptical, but Capcom will always be Capcom - we will get one to four truly outstanging games every year or two, and while we wait for the next ones to come along, they will shove us into the poor quality feeding trough of remakes and sequels. No one beats Capcom in that area, thats for sure.

Alucard
08-10-2003, 04:05 AM
oh sure, Capcom is all about milking. Thats my biggest problem with them. But that doesn't mean a sequel is going to be crap because they make sequel after sequel. Look at Dino Crisis 2 for example. I didn't think 1 was all that special, but 2 was quite different and better. Though going by your list I would have added RE0 to the good games. It may be an extension to a current series, but its a very well made one and should be played if you liked RE1. Of all the RE games I've only ever liked RE1 and Code Veronica. The rest suck. But RE0 is excellent.

Also going by games like Capcom vs SNK 1 and 2, it may be a sequel but its a little different. In the first game you had two types of styles to choose from. Now both styles are merged into one by joining various moves. Gives it a new approach. Might be a sequel but its done better. Unlike say SFA2+3 where its pretty much just about adding characters.

Seska
08-10-2003, 04:24 AM
Dino crisis 2 must be the only case in history where the sequel is BOUNDS better than the original. They totally revamped the system, introduced combo elements and pretty much unlimited ammo, or a way to make sure you are always loaded. ITs the closest thing on the PSX to DMC, because ots so action packed. But see, in this they changed the game, its not merely a sequel. That deserves praise, and thinking twie about it Id stick it in my list too if DC3 werent already on there.

Now, you say the figing games with each iteration change a little. Well thats the whole thing, its just a LITTLE, isnt it? Its just like Winning Eleven - each new release has a little change, a little upgrade, that makes purhcasing previous releases kinda pointless cause they have less characters, less moves or less scenarios.

Sure, if you are a fan of the series I am sure these little changes and updates are a welcome thing - but I certainly dont consider it praiseworthy to sucker your fans into buying the same product over and over again with such minor changes implemented. That is the essence of Milking.

baratus
08-10-2003, 06:40 AM
They're loosing it!

Alucard
08-10-2003, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by baratus
They're loosing it!

DONT MAKE ME BAN YOU!!!! :crazy: :crazy:

ATMA
08-10-2003, 08:21 AM
Why did Capcom change the US boxart?! The Japanese one was waaaaay nicer. BAH ...wouldn't be the first time.

Comeone we all know Capcom milks games, but betweeen all that milking you'll deffently find some great games,while it's easy to ignore those milking titles, but you simply CANNOT ignore Capcom..or you'll deffently miss some great titles. (I hope they take the art style and the gameplay of SNK vs Capcom for a new Capcom vs SNK game)

ps: I'll give EA 1 or 2 more yrs and they'll take the crown of "Milking games"

Nindalf
08-10-2003, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Alucard
bah, NiN ignore what Seska said. He's blatantly against Capcom in every way possible. Lets ignore all the good games and just focus on the bad ones. You dont call someone a fanboy because they like a few Capcom games. Thats not right.




Who is this "NiN" you speak of?

And Capcom is not milking, they are one of the best developers there is, after Nintendo of course. :sing:

And Killer 7 is not going to be a dud, its going to be a amazing game, and if Capcom would only make bigger than 50,000 initial shipment, it might actually sell, but im not saying anything...
And RE4 is going to 0wn!

And ATMA, what you mean that EA is the king of milking in few years, I think they have been the king of that for a looong time.( since that 34th expansion to sims, remember, the one with 2 new furnitures?)

ATMA
08-10-2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by N?n-in-Eilph
And ATMA, what you mean that EA is the king of milking in few years, I think they have been the king of that for a looong time.( since that 34th expansion to sims, remember, the one with 2 new furnitures?)

Come to think of it..I think you are right EA beats Capcom by a mile. So we can all agree that EA is the milking king?!

folken001
08-10-2003, 03:30 PM
Stop fighting, girls. To be really honest here, what company doesn't milk their successful series? Halo 2, Madden 2004, Final Fantasy 10-2, Doom3, half life 2, GT4, MGS3, KoF2002....on and on. Am I missing anything?

Black Sugar
08-10-2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Seska
Eh, I dont think it ahs anything to do with PS2, Crapcom has been multiplatformally crap since Devil May Cry 1. That Cel Shaded Car game, PN03, DMC2, the straight GC ports of RE 2, 3 and Code Veronica, and now Chaos LEgion is added to a host of very average games. The only saving grace is Viewtiful Joe. I hope Onimusha 3 dont turn out crap as well, but I already dislike the idea of samurai and oni vs swat teams. :crazy:

...no wonder why Shinji Mikami and the creator of SF and Final Fight decided to leave Capcom.

flamingspiral
08-10-2003, 04:05 PM
That's not really proving anything. Simply making a sequel to a continuing story is not milking, but rather finishing off the franchise and completing the storyline and filling in the holes. Although Capcom easily broke that rule after Resident Evil 3. Resident Evil 0 I can understand, but Code Veronica didn't add anything to the storyline that needed to be told to fill in any holes that where left untold from the previous games. Devil May Cry 2 also was simple milking, especially the fact that the games storyline was nonexistent, adding very little to the games storyline and atmosphere. Devil May Cry 2 was rushed, which is something Capcom tends to do with so many of there titles.

In my opinion, Capcom is finished. They just don't have the originality they once use to have. When something does come around, they rush it and make a complete ass of themselves. I can't even name how many Street figheter games they've fucked up. Simply milking the franchise until the they lose their originality.

I had high hopes for Chaos Legion. The developer said he planned to sell 100,000 copies worldwide. Now why would a sucky game like this come remotely even close to selling 100,00 copies? They ruched the product, and under that, they didn't add to much new features, other that milking a beat-em'up Devil May Cry clone. The summons where a great feature, but with them around, the game was too easily. A hard thing to balance when it comes to summons, and having them do 90% of the work for you.

From this point, I just don't look forward to anything Capcom has to offer, they've disappointed me so many times I just can't trust any of their products anymore; that or just become a moronic fanboy and buy their products merely for the sake of being an idiot. I own two capcom games, which I really enjoy both of them, but my feelings for Capcom are stickly nonexistent anymore, I don't look forward to anything Capcom has to offer anymore. If something good comes around though, I'll buy it, although I don't expect anything good from Capcom these days.

Alucard
08-10-2003, 04:24 PM
In defense of Code Veronica, that game explained a few things about certain characters personalities and back stories. It was a great addition to the story. 3 was not. And I'm finding it hard to believe that so many people looked forward to Chaos Legion, expecting it to be something exciting, when its clear to see that the game was turning out to be another Dynasty Warriors style game. And we know how dull and lifeless those games are. Repetitive.

Oh, and KOF2002 has an excuse fo rmilking. You'll notice all the KOF's from 94-98 all had distinct different feels. Around 99 is when SNK had some major financial problems and they were bought out, ripped up, etc etc. Only now did they finally break away from all the crap and reformed back into SNK. You can see this because they're releasing SNK vs Capcom, Samurai Shodown 0, KOF 3D, and KOF2003. They never released this many games at once in the past few years. And with lucky we'll see a PROPER KOF2003, and not some rehash like the previous ones now that they have their act together! GO SNK!

flamingspiral
08-10-2003, 04:49 PM
Resident Evil 3 added a lot to the series; the destruction of Racoon City stands out the most out of the storyline. From what I remember from Resident Evil 2, Claire found a report conserning her brother was, in Antarctica, so I don't understand why she just didn't look there in the first place, instead of waiting for months on end hoping something would come up. I could be wrong though, I haven't played Resident Evil 2 in a long time.

The main turn off from me purchasing Chaos Legion was the lack of a storyline, or a good one for that matter. When it comes to action games, it needs to have a good storyline, or I'll just get bored of it too quickly, the reptitive action needs to be backed up with a wonderful storyline for me to continue it. Devil may Cry had less than a storyline. If that game was any longer, I probobaly would have gotten bored and stoped playing it. Reason why I never finished Techu: Wrath of Heaven, because it's storyline wasn't interesting me, lead me to play it less and less, until completely not playing it at all anymore. I quess that's why I've never touched a Dynasty Warrior game in my life, I'll just get bored of it too quickly.

Escaflowne2001
08-10-2003, 06:18 PM
Sorry Seska if you only liked those few Capcom games you have a very bad taste in games. :rolleyes:

Alucard
08-10-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Escaflowne2001
Sorry Seska if you only liked those few Capcom games you have a very bad taste in games. :rolleyes:

Not expecting a lashing back for this comment. Nope.. :D

Seska
08-11-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by Escaflowne2001
Sorry Seska if you only liked those few Capcom games you have a very bad taste in games. :rolleyes:

Sorry Escaflowne if you like watching Yu Yu Hakusho, Dirty Pair Flash, Kiddy Grade, Slayers, and Mahoromatic, you have very bad taste in anime. :rolleyes:

Escaflowne2001
08-11-2003, 04:30 AM
Which proves you have zero taste, but you haven't even seen half of 'em...:rolleyes:

Alucard
08-11-2003, 05:47 AM
Hey now.. Slayers was a good series. Yu Yu Hakusho is excellent, and I enjoyed Dirty Pair Flash. Especially the second series.

ATMA
08-11-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Jules
The main turn off from me purchasing Chaos Legion was the lack of a storyline, or a good one for that matter.

Maybe they were aiming for an arcade style of game where everyone can pick it up and play it. But hey that's just me thinking there...

Even though I like Capcom and i'll always keep my eyes on them, i'll admit that there's something wrong going on at Capcom HQ. And I think the RE series (maybe MegaMan and Street Fighter series) got a few milking if not too many,but RE series beet them handsdown,but luckaly those are not the only series that Capcom makes so I think the entire picture isn't that bad as we think or maybe if we compare it to lets say EA. But they need to put their heads together and think right.

I wonder how much of the 100 games that they were developing (where 18 got cancelled) were sequals or milking?!

Seska
08-11-2003, 10:13 AM
Ugh please, Yuyu/Slayers is staple grade Dragonball type stuff for the masses. Kiddy grade is drawn by an artist who is well known for his pedophile dojin, and Mahoromatic is staple Gainax fanboy and fanservice material.

I can think of TONS of better titles that that average tripe. But I guess you can't or else you'd be watching it, huh? :crazy:

Escaflowne2001
08-11-2003, 10:19 AM
Well Seska that maybe but there is none of that in the anime though the main to chatacters clearly like each other.

Mahoromatic is very funny and Yu Yu Hakuso/Slayers are also good comedy and thankfully the fights are no where near as the bad Dragonball Z.

Oh well, we can't all like the same stuff. though I can't see why you wouldn't.

This'll be good, come now give me some better titles that I should be watching! Just finished Angel Sanctuary aswell very good and touching, but I guess you wouldn't like it with it's Brother/Sister fancy each other sidestory.

Cyclops
08-11-2003, 10:21 AM
Bad reviews did not stop gamers from buying enter the martix so why so it stop other from buying other games? Capcom just wants to show everyone their are not one track develper to fighting games like EA to sports and saquare to RPG. I still consider capcom one of the best TP today. A lot better then rockstart.

Seska
08-11-2003, 10:43 AM
Angel Sanctuary is soso, but at least its better than the other stuff you are watching. There is hope for you yet!

Good shows where characters like each other? Sheesh, you cant have everyone loving each other, with conflict there is tension, and a resolution which makes the story much more satysfying. :p

Classic GOOD shows include the following:

Martian Succesor Nadesico, most of the Gundam shows (except G Wing and onwards), Kimagure Orange Road (the mother of all love triangle shows), and Yawara! for a sports-related title.

Recent shows that are must-see are Cowboy Bebop, Noir, Hellsing - all of these three have a unique and clearly distinct style that is totally different from what you see in most shows. If you like funny shows and fantasy, you should check out Rune Soldier Louie. For something Eva-like, check out RahXepon, I like it better than Eva.

Witch Hunter Robin isnt too bad either, and Infinite Ryvius is very interesting in that its kinda like Lord of the Flies in space, with a huge cast with lots of turmoil and conflict among factions int he story. ITs a sunrise production and has that Gundam feel to it.

The only show Im currently watching is Scrapped Princess, which is a strange mix between sci-fi and fantasy, which is a welcome change from the norm. Its still runinng in japan, only 17 eps have been aired so far.

Anyway, that was pretty off-topic!:crazy:

Escaflowne2001
08-11-2003, 10:46 AM
See that's my problem I've seen all the mainstream big titles, I'm now trying the smaller titles and sometimes there are better.

I do wanna try out Witch Hunter Robin though I forgot all about that thanks, I really don't like Gundam though there are far better Mecha shows.

Seska
08-11-2003, 10:55 AM
Recent Gundam like Turn and Wing and Z is crap, you should watch the older stuff, in particular 0080, 0082 and 08th MS Team. When it comes to war stories and mecha, theres nothing that beats Gundam. Except MAcross, of course. Ah, thats another to watch thing - Macross Zero, though sadly only 2 OVAs are out so far. Next one is due this Fall.

Escaflowne2001
08-11-2003, 11:11 AM
Yes Macross 2 and Plus are very good. :big smile

Have you seen Full Metal Panic, Vandread??? :)

Alucard
08-11-2003, 11:30 AM
Thats 0083 you spaz!! 80 and 83 are the best Gundam stories out there. My personal favourites.. Orange Road, Patlabor tv series, Giant Robo, X-movie, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Kenshin is also very cool, Armitage <NOT the second BS move>, Macross Zero is also increadible.

One series I've started watching recently which I really encourage you to is Last Exile. Gorgeous.

Escaflowne2001
08-11-2003, 03:58 PM
Yes Gonzo are the best animators I think (RahXephon, Hellsing, Full Metal Panic, Kiddy Grade, Vandread and Last Exile) there animation is a beautiful blend of CGI and beautiful looking characters. ;)

Seska
08-11-2003, 08:34 PM
Nah, Gonzo werent responsible for RahXephon (great anime though too little CG for a Gonzo Production ;)) or Kiddy Grade. Maybe you are confusing RahXephon with Sentou Yousei Yukikaze.

The initial stuff they did, like Blue Submarine n6 and Vandread, the CGI was more eyecandy than necessary - its one of the reasons I dont really like Vandread. But over the years their stuff has become really good, with CGI used to enhance art, and not boast it.

My favorite Gonzo show is Gatekeepers, it has a great nostalgic 70's theme to it and a dramatic action packed story. I even fansubbed a buncha eps of the show till it eventually got licensed. I recommend it above any other Gonzo Show. The sequel, which was just a few ovas, GK21, is kinda blah, though.

flamingspiral
08-11-2003, 08:47 PM
I could never get into Gatekeepers, thought the series was sort of boring, and the uninteresting main character "I'm better than everyone" attitude didn't seem to portray any slight originality in the characters appearance at all.

Seska
08-11-2003, 08:55 PM
ITs not about the main character but about the entire cast. The whole Gatekeeper team doesnt even assemble until the 9th episode or so, and around the 10th the plot really kicks off. Ukiya is your average main guy - I certainly prefer him to the likes of Shinji from Eva. But Banchou, Reiko and the chinese girl are just a riot.

OYABUN GATE!

Hahaha. x.x

megajo53
08-12-2003, 01:56 AM
Nah, Gonzo werent responsible for RahXephon (great anime though too little CG for a Gonzo Production ) or Kiddy Grade. Maybe you are confusing RahXephon with Sentou Yousei Yukikaze.

http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,867,sngnmo,kiddy_grade.html
http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,792,mbwnsc,rahxephon.html

Kiddy Grade was by Gonzo and Rahxephon was produced by Bones. Hated Kiddy grade, but loved RahXephon: it was truely a masterpiece. Both studios have been known to produce some of the finest animation available on Anime TV series. I thought both GateKeepers and Vandread were all flash and no real substance, fun to watch once, but after that, they both pretty much fall flat. Both shows were made for kids so thats understandable.

Both Bones and Gonzo have been awsome with their releases lately, I implore every one to check out both Last Exile[Gonzo] and Scrapped Princess[Bones]. Both have some incredible animation and deep and intriguing story and plots. They are currently being aired in Japan, but fansubbs are widely available for both series.

Escaflowne2001
08-12-2003, 03:37 AM
Rahxephon isn't Gonzo that's strange cuz' the animation for Kiddy Grade, Full Metal Panic and RahXephon are exactly the same and two are gonzo strange. :big smile

I'll try Gatekeepers if I can find it but it won't beat Full Metal Panic as the best Gonzo production. Out of interest Seska why you hate Kiddy Grade??

Seska
08-12-2003, 05:47 AM
I felt the character design was very different in FMP from RahX - but anyway, Kiddy Grade - Im just fed up of sci-fi anime shows, last one I saw was Sekai no Monshou/Senki and it ended up boring me. Kiddy Grade to me seems like more of the staple SciFi stuff we get fed every season in one form or another.

Escaflowne2001
08-12-2003, 09:29 AM
Really, I thought they were alike. Yeah it does start off pretty slow but I thought it got better later. :)

Question? from your avatar's I assume you like Masamune Shirow. Have you ever heard of one by him called Landlock I brought it yesterday haven't watched it yet.

megajo53
08-12-2003, 10:06 AM
I'll try Gatekeepers if I can find it but it won't beat Full Metal Panic as the best Gonzo production. Out of interest Seska why you hate Kiddy Grade??

Although Full Metal Panic was a fun little romp, most people will agree that its far from Gonzos best work.....how many Gonzo titles have you watched so far?

Escaflowne2001
08-12-2003, 10:13 AM
I've seen...

Full Metal Panic (funny, action-packed and nice character designs)
Hellsing (Ok, but not really my thing)
Blue Submarine No.6 (nice watch)
Kiddy Grade (A slow start, but better later)
Vandread (Funny, Season 2 alot better)

haven't seen Gatekeepers or Last Exile yet but plan to later, and it would RahXephon isn't Gonzo though the characters designs are similar.

:)

folken001
08-12-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Escaflowne2001


I do wanna try out Witch Hunter Robin though I forgot all about that thanks, I really don't like Gundam though there are far better Mecha shows.


WHB is very good. (except the last episode) I like the beginning/ending songs a lot. In case you don't know about the story, it is about how there are "witches" (could be men or women) in the world. And there are secret these organizations around the world to perhaps terminate the bad witches. So the story begins at one of this organizations in Japan. Robin is a girl who is dispatched from the headquarter to the Japan HQ to help Japan to capture witches. Then you will later on find out why they capture witches and what's the deal with Robin herself.

It is 26 episode I believe.

Btw, Gundam is generally cool with me. Espeically the latest gundam seed, that show is just awesome......

Escaflowne2001
08-12-2003, 10:18 AM
Yeah I have to admit Gundam Seed does look pretty good again yet to try that one yet.

folken001
08-12-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by megajo53
http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,867,sngnmo,kiddy_grade.html
http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,792,mbwnsc,rahxephon.html

Kiddy Grade was by Gonzo and Rahxephon was produced by Bones. Hated Kiddy grade, but loved RahXephon: it was truely a masterpiece. Both studios have been known to produce some of the finest animation available on Anime TV series. I thought both GateKeepers and Vandread were all flash and no real substance, fun to watch once, but after that, they both pretty much fall flat. Both shows were made for kids so thats understandable.

Both Bones and Gonzo have been awsome with their releases lately, I implore every one to check out both Last Exile[Gonzo] and Scrapped Princess[Bones]. Both have some incredible animation and deep and intriguing story and plots. They are currently being aired in Japan, but fansubbs are widely available for both series.

Yea, Last Exile and Scrapped Princess are both very good. But, I think Gonzo could give out a little bit more of backgrond information for Last Exile, because, after 18 episodes, I still don't know why Guild is there and why can they only attack for 30 mins.

folken001
08-12-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Jules
I could never get into Gatekeepers, thought the series was sort of boring, and the uninteresting main character "I'm better than everyone" attitude didn't seem to portray any slight originality in the characters appearance at all.

If you think GateKeepers is bad, wait until you try gatekeepers21....:(

Personally, I kinda enjoyed Gatekeepers.

folken001
08-12-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Escaflowne2001
Yes Macross 2 and Plus are very good. :big smile

Have you seen Full Metal Panic, Vandread??? :)

Macross 2 is only good to me until episode 4. The last two episodes are rushed and crappy animated.


Btw, Mahoromatic 2nd season sucks. Sorry to tell you this, but it does.

folken001
08-12-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Alucard
Thats 0083 you spaz!! 80 and 83 are the best Gundam stories out there. My personal favourites.. Orange Road, Patlabor tv series, Giant Robo, X-movie, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Kenshin is also very cool, Armitage <NOT the second BS move>, Macross Zero is also increadible.

One series I've started watching recently which I really encourage you to is Last Exile. Gorgeous.

I don't really like 0080, the ending was just too sad...:)

0083 is awesome though, unit 03 is the best!!!

About Galactic Heroes, you should learn Japanese and read the novel because, even though the manga is awesome itself, the novel is just so much better.

Drunken Savior
08-12-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Seska
Recent shows that are must-see are Cowboy Bebop, Noir, Hellsing - all of these three have a unique and clearly distinct style that is totally different from what you see in most shows. If you like funny shows and fantasy, you should check out Rune Soldier Louie. For something Eva-like, check out RahXepon, I like it better than Eva.

Distinct style, you say? Elaborate please. Especially with "Noir."

Seska
08-12-2003, 11:56 AM
Noir has a strange Femme Nikita thing going on in that none of its characters are really likeable and very stoic. The only comparable anime to it is Kite, and even that heads off in a different direction.

If you think by style I meant graphical design, well no, It anime, as is Cowboy Bebop. The mood and setting, is what I am talking about.

Escaflowne2001
08-12-2003, 12:30 PM
Kilika (i think it was) was likeable especially in the episode about the painter. :big smile

Seska
08-12-2003, 12:56 PM
Well they are all pro killers, I guess being a hired assassin and staining your hands with blood all the time causes you to have the 50 yard stare and be a bit of an antisocial freak. :D

Drunken Savior
08-12-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Seska
Noir has a strange Femme Nikita thing going on in that none of its characters are really likeable and very stoic. The only comparable anime to it is Kite, and even that heads off in a different direction.

If you think by style I meant graphical design, well no, It anime, as is Cowboy Bebop. The mood and setting, is what I am talking about.

Nah, I knew thats what you were gettin at with the style aspect. I've been struggling to find my artistic "style" for awhile. But the only reason I even gave Cowboy Bebop a chance was because of the music. At first, I casted it off as some silly anime with self-absorbed wannabie hipseters. (Who I thought was Spike, based on the intro) Boy was I wrong.

Alucard
08-12-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by folken001
I don't really like 0080, the ending was just too sad...:)

0083 is awesome though, unit 03 is the best!!!

About Galactic Heroes, you should learn Japanese and read the novel because, even though the manga is awesome itself, the novel is just so much better.

Now you see why I like 80. I love sad stories! :D And I wish I could learn enough to read that book. Would take years and alot of money on studdying, and sadly I'm a tad impatient. :crying:

Seska
08-12-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Drunken Savior
At first, I casted it off as some silly anime with self-absorbed wannabie hipseters. (Who I thought was Spike, based on the intro) Boy was I wrong.

Bebop is awesome. Its just my luck that one of my friends spoilt the ending for me when I was about halfway through watching the seires. Its been about 5 years, and Im still waiting for a show as good to pop up so I can return him the "favor"...:angry:

Escaflowne2001
08-12-2003, 04:06 PM
Never really sure the magic in Cowboy Beboop that everyone likes don't get me wrong it's good but no where near one of the best. :)

megajo53
08-13-2003, 12:57 AM
Bebop was all about style and action, thats why its such a popular series stateside. The animation on Bebop at the time of its release was outstanding compared to the competition as well. Its an episodic series though and that was a major criticism by critics of the anime, there was no real coherent, ongoing story or plot.

I did enjoy the series, though its not quite my favorite. The characters were well fleshed out, the action was well animated, and the style was very nice and refreshing. If you don't like the blues or your looking for a long ongoing story, chances are, you probably won't like it, other wise its great. Its an oldie, but still a goodie.


To Escaflowne2001:

Definitely try out Last Exile. Also, you might wanna check out Kaleidostar and Saikano. They are some of the best works by Gonzo IMO.

flamingspiral
08-13-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Escaflowne2001
Never really sure the magic in Cowboy Beboop that everyone likes don't get me wrong it's good but no where near one of the best. :)

That's quite simple of you to say. "no where near one of the best." I can assure you it's miles away from the crap you watch, or are addicted to. Cowboy Bebop puts many anime series to shame, thinking otherwise with a half-assed reply in reasoning is just ignorence.

Dead Account 01
08-13-2003, 03:15 AM
Capcom is the dumbest company in gaming right now. They've made a staggeringly large # of increadibly stupid decisions. They've been canning games left and right, making sh!t games that they expect to sell millions only to watch them flop, putting games on systems they don't make money and taking games from systems that do. At this rate, expect them to be a M$ 2nd party developer next gen :sing:

PS: Cowboy Bepop is great fun. Anyone know if there are any episodes dubbed in English?

Drunken Savior
08-13-2003, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by Decado
PS: Cowboy Bepop is great fun. Anyone know if there are any episodes dubbed in English?

Yeah, you can get all the episodes in both English/Japanese one ebay for around $30-40. Thats where I got mine.

Escaflowne2001
08-13-2003, 04:07 AM
Woah!! Jules aren't we a nice guy/girl....:rolleyes:

but sorry to say we all have different tastes I prefer comedy animes the most and alas CB is very short on that as I said it's good but not great so deal with it jules and don't be an arse.

You try hard now you hear.

Cyclops
08-13-2003, 08:00 AM
Bebop only had 5 really great ep`s. Not that it a bad series but it show anit great as many anime fans make it out to be. YYH is a DBZ wonnebe. YYH don`t even have half the good things DBZ does. The only gundam series I like is the only one most gundam fans don`t like...G Gundam. Since when does anime that contain lots of fan service was for kids? :confused:

Nindalf
08-13-2003, 08:27 AM
Isint Bebop that rhino from Turtles?

Escaflowne2001
08-13-2003, 09:06 AM
I haven't a clue the more fan service it gets the higher rating it gets kids anime are more like Pokemon, Cardcaptor Sakura etc....but that's just me.

YYH has two greater things of DBZ the series isn't one long fight scene and the story/characters are a lot better.

Icarus4578
08-13-2003, 09:56 AM
Let's begin.

Jules, you said "Resident Evil 3 added a lot to the series; the destruction of Racoon City stands out the most out of the storyline. From what I remember from Resident Evil 2, Claire found a report conserning her brother was, in Antarctica, so I don't understand why she just didn't look there in the first place, instead of waiting for months on end hoping something would come up. I could be wrong though, I haven't played Resident Evil 2 in a long time.

The main turn off from me purchasing Chaos Legion was the lack of a storyline, or a good one for that matter. When it comes to action games, it needs to have a good storyline, or I'll just get bored of it too quickly, the reptitive action needs to be backed up with a wonderful storyline for me to continue it. Devil may Cry had less than a storyline. If that game was any longer, I probobaly would have gotten bored and stoped playing it. Reason why I never finished Techu: Wrath of Heaven, because it's storyline wasn't interesting me, lead me to play it less and less, until completely not playing it at all anymore. I quess that's why I've never touched a Dynasty Warrior game in my life, I'll just get bored of it too quickly."

I think you're in the wrong field of entertainment. You need books, movies, and TV shows, not games. You claim storyline is what makes a game great. Something is terribly amiss here. When I play great games like Contra, Castlevania, Metroid, etc. I don't care one bit about the storyline! So Dracula has been resurrected again. There. That's all that I need to know. Excuse me while I go grab my whip.

Alucard, you said "Now you see why I like 80. I love sad stories! And I wish I could learn enough to read that book. Would take years and alot of money on studdying, and sadly I'm a tad impatient."

I love sad stories as well. If you wanna watch an anime series that'll wreck your emotions, then watch Maison Ikkoku by Rumiko Takahashi. That series DECIMATES all the newer anime series by a mile! Better storyline, better artwork, interesting characters, better music, etc. than ALL of them. And oh yeah, no stupid ass plastic/cold computer graphic BS to disguise lack of artistic talent (or laziness).

Seska, ever watch Gunsmith Cats? That was fun. By the way, i'll have to agree with you about Capcom's erroneous habits as of late, re-releasing/milking old series to death. But SquareSoft has been even worse. With FFVIII-X + that crud X-2, they've disregarded what made the series so great to begin with; variety, ingenuity, non-linearity, and great music. But hey! At least they gave us Vagrant Story, which was decent.

Escaflowne2001
08-13-2003, 10:44 AM
Dynasty Warriors has actually a pretty good storyline, based on true facts while they have clearly need added to.

Its' true about storylines but games like RPG's NEED a storyline otherwise there pretty pointless the whole point of a RPG is to play your way through a interesting storyline. Games like Castlevania/Contra don't need storyline as half the time there mindless shooting but fun all the same.

oh! and Gunsmith Cats is a pretty good anime, reminds me of Burn Up! W.

Seska
08-13-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Icarus4578
If you wanna watch an anime series that'll wreck your emotions, then watch Maison Ikkoku by Rumiko Takahashi.

Bah! MI has a freaking HAPPY ending! Everyone in the story ends up happy (except for Ibuki, but shes a bitch :D)! If you want real, heart-torn torment, watch Video Girl Ai - even better, read it, the Manga (inicdentally one of the first manga series I started to collect after Akira) is THE godfather of angst-riddled anime and manga relationship stories. KAtsura's obsession with pantyshots is jsut an added bonus. :D

MI is still very good, despite its happy ending, it certainly is leagues better than Ranma and the recent Inuyasha. Though I havent seen the Anime, I own the Manga (could not resist to buy the whole special wide edition set at 500 yen a volume when I saw it in a second hand bookstore in Sapporo :D) and have read it at least 10 times.

I read some of GSC, though I didnt see the Anime. It never caught my attention much.

Yes, sadly the industry seems to be hopping onto the Capcom-style bandwagon, with remakes and retreads and lame sequels. Square is sadly no exception. And the rumors of a Front Mission 1 remake just confirm the change in their policy. Blah.

Icarus4578
08-13-2003, 05:07 PM
Video Girl Ai is a great 6 episode series. But Maison Ikkoku lasts for 96 episodes and much of it gets depressing. Of course it has a happy ending; it's by Rumiko Takahashi! I also enjoy Inu-Yasha. VGAi, the manga, is exceptionally well drawn if I do say so myself. But it's clearly not up to stuff like Urusei Yatsura. BTW, Madoka of Kimagure Orange Road is such a beauty. That's a fun series. Jingoro is no match for Garfield though. Speaking of which, the entire series of Garfield & Friends is (FINALLY) being put out on DVD sometime later this year/early next year. Oh yeah! Let the laughing riots begin! :cool:

flamingspiral
08-13-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Icarus4578
I think you're in the wrong field of entertainment. You need books, movies, and TV shows, not games. You claim storyline is what makes a game great. Something is terribly amiss here. When I play great games like Contra, Castlevania, Metroid, etc. I don't care one bit about the storyline! So Dracula has been resurrected again. There. That's all that I need to know. Excuse me while I go grab my whip.

Why don't you jump off the intellectual high horse for a second and come down here and join us ignorant mortals, for you'll see you put words in my mouth in your entire post. Not once did I evaluate every game I play needs to have a mind blowing storyline. I was referring to the highly popular action hack 'n slash games (Devil May Cry, Dynasty Warrior, Rygar, etc). Without a good storyline, they're just pointless action games, bound to entertain you for a short period of time. I can enjoy a good hack 'n slash as much as the next guy, but if they exceed past 20 hours, they damn well as should have a decent storyline, or I'll simply get bored of the repetitive action.

I also think you're post was a little off base. Contra is a short game, and is hard as hell. No decent storyline needs to be added if the game is pointed at short and relevant action. I DO read books, currently into the Dragonlance series. I DO watch tv, just got done watching the Daily Show with John Stewart. I DO Watch movies, just watch Ninja Scroll last night. My field of entertainment is expanded tremendously, and I look for certain aspects of entertainment throughout each gender. When I complain things I don't like about games, it's simple explaining on would they; the developers, could have done better to make a game attract the more main stream gamers.

Drunken Savior
08-13-2003, 08:11 PM
This thread wins the award for most off topic.

folken001
08-15-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Cyclops
Bebop only had 5 really great ep`s. Not that it a bad series but it show anit great as many anime fans make it out to be. YYH is a DBZ wonnebe. YYH don`t even have half the good things DBZ does. The only gundam series I like is the only one most gundam fans don`t like...G Gundam. Since when does anime that contain lots of fan service was for kids? :confused:

I find YYH much more entertaining. Its story is way more original and interesting. Most importantly, it didn't drag on forever.

folken001
08-15-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Seska
Bah! MI has a freaking HAPPY ending! Everyone in the story ends up happy (except for Ibuki, but shes a bitch :D)! If you want real, heart-torn torment, watch Video Girl Ai - even better, read it, the Manga (inicdentally one of the first manga series I started to collect after Akira) is THE godfather of angst-riddled anime and manga relationship stories. KAtsura's obsession with pantyshots is jsut an added bonus. :D

MI is still very good, despite its happy ending, it certainly is leagues better than Ranma and the recent Inuyasha. Though I havent seen the Anime, I own the Manga (could not resist to buy the whole special wide edition set at 500 yen a volume when I saw it in a second hand bookstore in Sapporo :D) and have read it at least 10 times.

I read some of GSC, though I didnt see the Anime. It never caught my attention much.

Yes, sadly the industry seems to be hopping onto the Capcom-style bandwagon, with remakes and retreads and lame sequels. Square is sadly no exception. And the rumors of a Front Mission 1 remake just confirm the change in their policy. Blah.

Companies can make sequels, but that doesn't mean we have to buy them. That is hardly any problem with that. I would love to have a FF7-2 though.

As far as wanting to see an anime that messes up with your emotion, people should try "She, The Ulimate Weapon" (don't remeber the japanese name right now). That anime is weird as hell and has so many emtion twists. Especially when you get to the last 3-4 epsiode, it is just depressing......

megajo53
08-15-2003, 01:49 AM
She the Ultimate Weapon is Saikano in Japan, its by Gonzo Studios. Very good, but very depressing.......

Escaflowne2001
08-15-2003, 03:55 AM
Another Gonzo production I liked even though not many people did was Final Fantasy Unlimited. :big smile

Funny, cheerful (but serious at times) and a hold load of cactuar what more could you want? :wink: