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TheHardware
05-06-2003, 07:39 PM
just wondering how everyone feels about Nec doing the hardware for nintendos next game console

these guys have had 3 systems that failed in the us...tg16 and turboduo and turbo express (eventhough i loved em and still have em)

i know they arent makeing the games themselves but dont u think nintendo should create thier own hardware....if anything goes wrong everyone will just blame it all on nec....mario with a computer pc look.....hmmmmm

your thoughts

max powers
05-06-2003, 08:19 PM
nec is a major powerhouse ,i think that this is just what nintendo needs, nec will most likley develope a system with a way more mature look,also all the bells and whistele of ms and sony dvd,online,harddrive and it wont be purpule(lol)and where did u get the impression that nec makes pc-ish graphics ,but that doese not matter ati is making nin graphic chips PUNK

Username
05-06-2003, 09:03 PM
NEC is an extremely high-quality company. Everything they make they usually make the best of that catagory. NEC is also a very stable company with profits as the bottom line.

Also, NEC merged with Mitsubishi thus stretching it's hands across a wide spectrum of hardware.

I think Nintendo wants to consolidate its' hardware so it won't be so random. The Xbox uses a different company for every part. The Gamecube uses about 5 (IBM, ATi, Samsung etc). Much of the PS2's success comes from the fact most of the console is directly connected to Sony.

In conclusion, I'm happy that Nintendo picked NEC.

Tael
05-06-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Username
The Gamecube uses about 5 (IBM, ATi, Samsung etc).What does Samsung supply for the GameCube?

Black Ace
05-06-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Tael
What does Samsung supply for the GameCube?

Nothing, he meant Pannasonic, which makes the mini-DVD for the system. NEC had no real involment in the GC except supplying graphics card, which was developed by ATI, and NEC just manufactor it.

TheHardware
05-07-2003, 12:02 AM
it makes a lot of sense but is nec also going to develope whateverhandheld nintendo decides to be the sucsessor of the gb advance...hmmmmmm

mackensie
05-07-2003, 12:59 AM
NEC failed in marketing, not in hardware development. any company who grasped the idea of a portable game player that did not play dumbed down versions of games (turbo express played the actual tg16 games), clearly knows their hardware. NEC sounds like a great partner.

Username
05-07-2003, 01:54 AM
I think Samsung provide the RAM.

Renegade X
05-07-2003, 03:44 AM
Personally, I don't know... I remember NEC being a good hardware company, but it's be a LONG time since I saw a NEC product anywhere.... but again, I'll admit I don't exactly live in the technology capital of the US... I say as long as this give Nintendo more to to work on games and marketing along with keeping the price down, go for it.

HighlandTWO
05-07-2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Personally, I don't know... I remember NEC being a good hardware company, but it's be a LONG time since I saw a NEC product anywhere.... but again, I'll admit I don't exactly live in the technology capital of the US... I say as long as this give Nintendo more to to work on games and marketing along with keeping the price down, go for it. `

My cellphone is made by nec ....

XzenoGear
05-07-2003, 11:16 AM
NEC, made chips for the dreamcast, and i think for the N64. But this is old news.

Hemmorrhoid
05-07-2003, 03:44 PM
as far as I know they are making the GCN successors processor which is said to outpower the Cell processor (which wont be used for the PS3 anyway) in clockspeed

but thats all rumors

Mr Mort
05-07-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by TheHardware
just wondering how everyone feels about Nec doing the hardware for nintendos next game console

these guys have had 3 systems that failed in the us...tg16 and turboduo and turbo express (eventhough i loved em and still have em)

i know they arent makeing the games themselves but dont u think nintendo should create thier own hardware....if anything goes wrong everyone will just blame it all on nec....mario with a computer pc look.....hmmmmm

your thoughts

The failure of NEC's home consoles really has no bearing on them making hardware for the Nintendo console.

NEC's been producing various PC chips & components for quite some time now. I'm sure things will turn out just fine. Besides, the system itself will be designed by Nintendo, NEC is merely supplying various components.

As for games having "a computer pc look", I wouldn't worry about that either. I'm certain whatever components NEC designs for the system, it/they will be specifically designed for a gaming console.

gearhound1
05-08-2003, 12:15 AM
nintendo isn't just going to sit around while Nec develops the successor to the cube. nintendo will have a big hand in the development process. as for the next GBA, i will bet money(not really)that it will be created by nintendo.

Renegade X
05-08-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by gearhound
nintendo isn't just going to sit around while Nec develops the successor to the cube. nintendo will have a big hand in the development process. as for the next GBA, i will bet money(not really)that it will be created by nintendo.

I don't know... after the last two times, I think it might be a good move for Nintendo not to touch the next NConsole(ok, we know it's most likely not gonna be the Gamecube 2, so I figure why not call it the nxe NConsole, it fits more, and you can use NC for short) not doubt they'll keep making GB* forever, but the second they stumble, they'll most likely hand it off as well.

Wookie
05-08-2003, 01:08 PM
I've been thinking BigN would be better to wait until PS3 and XB2 have been out a year or two before shipping their next console. If the consoles were staggered in release, well it would mean that our hardware would be well beyond the other two, but we'd probably piss off every developer who wanted to make multiplatform stuff. It seemed like when the Cube launched though, people had trouble telling the XB and GC apart.

Anyways, I don't remember ever thinking that NEC's consoles weren't neat consoles. They just weren't the NES or SNES, and if I remember right they were like $200 which in the day seemed insane for a console price tag.

Hemmorrhoid
05-08-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Wookie
I've been thinking BigN would be better to wait until PS3 and XB2 have been out a year or two before shipping their next console. If the consoles were staggered in release, well it would mean that our hardware would be well beyond the other two, but we'd probably piss off every developer who wanted to make multiplatform stuff. It seemed like when the Cube launched though, people had trouble telling the XB and GC apart.

Anyways, I don't remember ever thinking that NEC's consoles weren't neat consoles. They just weren't the NES or SNES, and if I remember right they were like $200 which in the day seemed insane for a console price tag.

Seriously, what difference is it gonna make if the next Nintendo console is much more powerful? It will hardly make a difference the next generation with systems being so powerful. GCN and Xbox are already practically identically powerful, PS2 being close, and this will shrink even more the next round. The big advantage is the time of release, weve seen this work with the inferior PS2.

cic?ron
05-08-2003, 06:20 PM
If I remember well the last console made by nec is the dreamcast (for sega). It failed, hope it won't be the same for nintendo.

Reality
05-08-2003, 07:18 PM
Well I think it has more to do with who runs the console then who makes it.;)

gearhound1
05-09-2003, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by cic?ron
If I remember well the last console made by nec is the dreamcast (for sega). It failed, hope it won't be the same for nintendo.

that is totally irrelevant.

ScornedGod
05-09-2003, 03:59 AM
As long as its powerful, doesn't fall apart and doesn't look childish or stupid, what does it matter who makes/designs it????

XzenoGear
05-09-2003, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by ScornedGod
As long as its powerful, doesn't fall apart and doesn't look childish or stupid, what does it matter who makes/designs it????

Right ON!

yohan11
05-11-2003, 06:43 AM
Renegade X, I'm surprised you can enter the Gamecube forum and still suggest that Nintendo not make a GCN2 (or NConsole as you call it) and also go onto speculate that if GBA fails to leave that industry too?

I'd prefer constructive criticism from a Nintendo fan than a visitor with a negative attitude!

XzenoGear
05-11-2003, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by yohan11
Renegade X, I'm surprised you can enter the Gamecube forum and still suggest that Nintendo not make a GCN2 (or NConsole as you call it) and also go onto speculate that if GBA fails to leave that industry too?

I'd prefer constructive criticism from a Nintendo fan than a visitor with a negative attitude!

:crying: You will get used to him, He aint that bad.

ScornedGod
05-11-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by XzenoGear
:crying: You will get used to him, He aint that bad.
:crying: You will get used to him, He aint that bad.

Renegade X
05-11-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by yohan11
Renegade X, I'm surprised you can enter the Gamecube forum and still suggest that Nintendo not make a GCN2 (or NConsole as you call it) and also go onto speculate that if GBA fails to leave that industry too?

I'd prefer constructive criticism from a Nintendo fan than a visitor with a negative attitude!

It's easy for me to do it, Nintendo has messed up TWICE now with consoles. They haven't messed up with their handled device design, and if they did I would be very surprised. I wasn't the one that posted this topic, thank you very much, I was merely commenting on it.

And I think I've been posting on the forum a little bit longer than you have... I think my 1000+ posts against your 1 speaks for that... and if it was a Nintendo fan criticising this, more than likely it would be criticism, it would be a biased opinion. Yes, I do lean more towards the XBOX because it's the underdog, but I'm sure some of the posters here have seen my objections about MS trying to get Doom III exclusive. Pardon me for raining on parades and KEEPING IT REAL...

Also, I would like for you to check up on me and take a look at my past postings, and I'd love to know what your definition of constructive critizism is. Call me a visitor if you like, but excuse me for adding in other possibilities to situations, if you can't handle negativity, then get out of the forums because their plenty of it here, but it's done in a pretty mature and adult way.... some times.

Username
05-11-2003, 04:06 PM
After every sales month it's becoming more and more apparent that the GC is the clear underdog. All Microsoft needs to do is get a bunch of time-exclusives this holiday season to finish off Nintendo's hope a popular console.

The only real hope Nintendo has of reclaiming some land is with a GC2. But as far as GC catching up to even 2nd place, it's hopeless. Europe proves even with Wind Waker the Xbox still outsells GC 2 to 1.

Renegade X
05-11-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Username
After every sales month it's becoming more and more apparent that the GC is the clear underdog. All Microsoft needs to do is get a bunch of time-exclusives this holiday season to finish off Nintendo's hope a popular console.

The only real hope Nintendo has of reclaiming some land is with a GC2. But as far as GC catching up to even 2nd place, it's hopeless. Europe proves even with Wind Waker the Xbox still outsells GC 2 to 1.

Actually all the XBOX need to do is release Ninja Gaiden right in the thick of the holiday season and thats it... there is no doubt in my mind if Tecmo releases a game that plays as good ast teh Ninja Gaiden footages shows off, theres just no question about it the XBOX would over take the GC.

Now please before the XBOX fanboy mud is slung at me, I'm pausing from playing Ikaruga and Resident Evil remake to post here. So get off my back folks, When Nintendo is a monoply they can do no wrong, but with Sony and Mircosoft in the fray, they need to think more like a business now rather than depending on their long time fans to sustain them... thats now what business is about... You want new fans to keep you going when the older ones start dropping off due to the fact that most well growing up means giving up somethings like gaming and other stuff like that.

I think if Nintendo was to hand over the creation and production of next console over to NEC and just take a overseer postition it would be good for them. Because next time around consoles are going to NEED to have 3 things, DVD Player, Hard Drive, a Solid Online Stradegy.... Mircosoft is going to have a edge next time aroudn because they have all 3 right now, Sony will have a slight edge but they better include the modem and hard drive next time around. Nintendo right now has great games, but they can use some work on their console... It's time to throw the concept of "gaming hardware (console wise at least) done our way" and start using more basic run of the PC parts that have been slightly customized... It would be cheap, effent(sp?), easier for developers to develope for even more so than it is now, plus they could appeal to not only the hardcore game fan, but they also could start drawing in those users who want a machine that does more than just play games. I mean that sounds crazy but.... I think it could work, anybody disagree?

Pilotwings
05-11-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Username
After every sales month it's becoming more and more apparent that the GC is the clear underdog. All Microsoft needs to do is get a bunch of time-exclusives this holiday season to finish off Nintendo's hope a popular console.

The only real hope Nintendo has of reclaiming some land is with a GC2. But as far as GC catching up to even 2nd place, it's hopeless. Europe proves even with Wind Waker the Xbox still outsells GC 2 to 1.

:o

has xbox made any huge profits for microsoft? yeah, thats what i thought.

what is the xbox userbase username?

cic?ron
05-11-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by ScornedGod
:crying: You will get used to him, He aint that bad.

Ho yes he is:crazy:

cic?ron
05-11-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X

Because next time around consoles are going to NEED to have 3 things, DVD Player, Hard Drive, a Solid Online Stradegy....


I usually try not to answer your posts... but this time I have to.

I don't care for a hard drive as the only good thing it does for me is allowing me not to buy a memorycard. Don't tell me about loading times, because they're still slower than on my gc. So I really don't care if the next console generation have it or not.

A dvd player, what for? You still don't have one?

An online strategy... maybe... but not for me till it's not free... because to tell you the truth, if I want to play with others I prefer to have them in the same room rather than strangers that are not more real to me than the player played by the computer. Still, even if it's sometimes fun (I love fragging in q3 arena or playing a little starcraft) I like to play alone. I guess I'm not the only one. I know online gaming is a big thing for teenagers... but it's not my dope.

Therefore the next Nintendo console might lack those three component and succeed with me. I might not represent the majority, but I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling that way.

ATMA
05-11-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Username
Europe proves even with Wind Waker the Xbox still outsells GC 2 to 1.

You mean England. You just saw the U.K sale chart ....Europe is way bigger than the U.K .and therefore you cannot look at U.K alone and say Europe. (unless you've indeed seen a European chart if you saw it ..please don't by shy to show it) ..Prety sure France and Germany and Holland and Spain and Denmark and Finland took Zelda prety well...

Zelda is a 1st party game wich means Nintendo wins alot of $$$$ for every software of Zelda it sells.. X-box sells on multisystem 3rd party games wich doesn't bring much $$$ compare to what Zelda does for Nin....and the reason why Nin games doesn't stay long in the U.K chart is simply because it's Nin vs PS2 and X-box. .Why do you think Splinter Cell is back in the top 3 or top 5? Simply because they just add the X-box and PS2 together and put it like it's there as one title on one system. Splinter Cell might go down again, but when it's released for the Cube here in Europe ..it will go up again. Haven't seen a X-box exclusive very long in the U.K chart either... ps2 can give credits to it's large userbase ..that would explain why Vice City and Getaway won't vanished from the chart. This would also explain why EA dominates these chart simply because they have their games on every console outthere.

TheHardware
05-11-2003, 06:56 PM
good god...i cant believe this...but i am about to agree with renegade x......oh sh!t......hes almost right......

but not completely......

and cieron...some of those things you said were unimportant to you (dvd player,hardrive ect.. made a difference (i used to work at toys r us.....in times square..the flagship store...biggest toy store in the world) parents that brought games for thier kids and heard all those extra features....online and dvd ( now they can get off of thier parents player)were only to happy to buy a ps2 or xbox over gc....it was sad but true

nin needs to adress the current state of video gaming...like it or not...
if change doesnt occure(with all things)...the company who doesnt will get left behind....
cartridges...to cds to dvds...to blue ray technology.....nintendo is hesitant and doesnt like change...which shows why a company with thier prestige...is still fighting for the number two spot....

Reality
05-11-2003, 07:16 PM
Yo know getting back to thinking up a time line here, I think the NES area was the only time Nintendo wasn't fighting for top place in the end. I do know they had a time launching the thing in the U.S, let alone Japan. I think we all have this wild idea Nintendo was top till the launch of the N64 then they fell. I mean from how I see it, from the SNES and over they were always fighting someone. One month ahead, next month fighting. I wonder how many people got them selves a Sega back in the day because it had those radicle CD add ons were Nintendo didn't. Yeah I think they are slow for change. Or it may just be the bad management decisions for that time but I don't think there was every a time Nintendo didn't make money off what they did in the long run. They have real time issues to address I agree, but name some one who got it right each gen. Just because though they don't walk around blowing hype about large buyouts or debates with Sony doesn't mean they aren't working to find how they can fix these issues. They obviously don't tell us anything and what major issues they do have they [b]are[]/b] making movements to fix. Like Nintendo addressing 3rd parties and this E3 to work out better support on both sides. I support the Nintendo consoles and look forward to them for as long as they live. They don't get the biggest or best console ideas each time but gosh, drop from the console business all together over that? I mean, Zelda or Metorid on the next Xbox for what reason? How much better do you think it can be thin to have it one a console made from the same people. I ask what's trhe point in that idea? Just so the next Xbox or PS2 can have them? ???

cic?ron
05-11-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by TheHardware

and cieron...some of those things you said were unimportant to you (dvd player,hardrive ect.. made a difference (i used to work at toys r us.....in times square..the flagship store...biggest toy store in the world) parents that brought games for thier kids and heard all those extra features....online and dvd ( now they can get off of thier parents player)were only to happy to buy a ps2 or xbox over gc....it was sad but true



Read my post again, I never said that my taste were those of the parents buying a toy to their kids. It's only my opinion, my taste, but like I said I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Biggest toy store in the US, not the world... please stop believing manhatan is the world.

Ha and my name is not cieron, but cic?ron. The spelling is not that important, but the name has a meaning to me... it goes with my workfield. Cic?ron was one of the great of my kind. The name in english is cicero I guess.

Pilotwings
05-11-2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Username
After every sales month it's becoming more and more apparent that the GC is the clear underdog. All Microsoft needs to do is get a bunch of time-exclusives this holiday season to finish off Nintendo's hope a popular console.

The only real hope Nintendo has of reclaiming some land is with a GC2. But as far as GC catching up to even 2nd place, it's hopeless. Europe proves even with Wind Waker the Xbox still outsells GC 2 to 1.

nintendo sells games (zelda) to their fans, and they've brought a gc already. zeldasell mostly to fans and not outside of that.

Username
05-11-2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Hotwings
nintendo sells games (zelda) to their fans, and they've brought a gc already. zeldasell mostly to fans and not outside of that.


Which is why the Gamecube can never succeed even if they make the best games.

Pilotwings
05-11-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Username
Which is why the Gamecube can never succeed even if they make the best games.

they are the #1 publisher of japan, and they don't succeed? hardware does not equal success, software is in a way, microsoft only big seller is halo. which deosn't sell as many as super smash bros. melee, while nintendo has a bunch of big seller for its gamecube already, mario party 4, pikmin turns out to be a huge hit, so is animal crossing and they are both new franchise, then theres mario sunshine, metroid and zelda. the way i see it, they are already successful (in making a huge profit).

Username
05-11-2003, 09:27 PM
Cool it hotwings.

I never said Nintendo could never succeed, I said the Gamecube could never succeed.

Think about it.

Bad1
05-11-2003, 10:44 PM
??? Since when was making money, not a success? I mean Nintendo still makes money on every GC they sell. Let alone their software sales. Yet, on the other hand you have Microsoft losing money on every Xbox ever sold. I don't know about you, but between the two, I'd say the GC is a success.:P

Drunken Savior
05-11-2003, 11:27 PM
In comparison to what we expected out of Nintendo (GC essentially being the answer to Nintendo's damaged reputation with the N64) I'd say that it was a lackluster system.

Besides, XBox isn't such a failure as you think...

Influence and profits are two things in the businessworld that people hunger for. Microsoft now has a huge influence in the NA/European market that stole alot of Nintendo's fire.

TheHardware
05-12-2003, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by cic?ron
Read my post again, I never said that my taste were those of the parents buying a toy to their kids. It's only my opinion, my taste, but like I said I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Biggest toy store in the US, not the world... please stop believing manhatan is the world.

Ha and my name is not cieron, but cic?ron. The spelling is not that important, but the name has a meaning to me... it goes with my workfield. Cic?ron was one of the great of my kind. The name in english is cicero I guess.


uhhh...ok...calm down dude...dont have a cow man

Renegade X
05-12-2003, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by TheHardware
and cieron...some of those things you said were unimportant to you (dvd player,hardrive ect.. made a difference (i used to work at toys r us.....in times square..the flagship store...biggest toy store in the world) parents that brought games for thier kids and heard all those extra features....online and dvd ( now they can get off of thier parents player)were only to happy to buy a ps2 or xbox over gc....it was sad but true


Since ciceron is getting highly anal over how is name is being spelled, I'm just not even going to bother with his posts. Save this, are you crazy? Why a DVD player, gee lets think... oh maybe because their very cheap? Because they keep the cost of discs down? Because you can put nearly 10x more information on a DVD than a CD? Gee, why put a DVD-Rom drive in a console... I'm just a total idiot aren't I? *is being extremely sarcastic*

But anyways... I'd like to add to that that I was in Best Buy about a week ago and while i was looking at some GBA games, I couldn't help but over hear one of the guy's helping this parent pick out a system for their kid, and one of the key things the parent say is, he wanted a console that could play DVDs because he wanted to teach his kid about being responsable and learning how to do stuff on their own (I guess the kid was maybe 4 or 5) and he also asked which ones could go online, regardless to say the man walked out with a PS2 because it had both plus more games, but with those two questions, I couldn't help but notice that he no longer meantioned the Gamecube... I know for a fact in the US a good majority of average gamers want a console that can do more than play video games. We live in a world where multi-tasking is a huge HUGE plus. Kids nowadays are spoiled rotten on the Internet, DVDs, and high technology, I mean when I was a kid... the most high tech thing I owned was a NES, everything else I had was either cloths, plastic action figures, or wooden/plastic guns that I had to add the sound effects in for... I would kill to be able to be born right now.

HighlandTWO
05-12-2003, 06:18 AM
The only reason people in belgium buy an Xbox is because it has mame,the rest of the people has a PS2,the hard core have a cube (and the other two ofcourse)

I'm not fond of nintendo games but I bought a cube because
A)I really dig the controller
B)The YAK (Llamasoft )Is making a cube game (and I saw that ikaruga was coming out and they were going to release Vjoe)
c) I got it cheap second hand ;)

XzenoGear
05-12-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Username
Which is why the Gamecube can never succeed even if they make the best games.

Nintendo hold over 40% of the console market share, do you call that a failure?

TheHardware
05-12-2003, 11:47 AM
also to back up what renegadex says, me working at the biggest toy store in MANHATTEN we were urged to sell X box and point out the fact that it had a build in modem plus dvd player and also we were told not to mention the horrible things about games but just to sell sell sell sell :yikes:

with microsofts marketing power just think if every store tried to sell Xbox as a better gaming system than the game cube to unsuspecting parents ,........:confused:

Renegade X
05-12-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by XzenoGear
Nintendo hold over 40% of the console market share, do you call that a failure?

Theres no way Nintendo or Mircosoft hold more than 10 to 15% of the market share... where are you getting these numbers. That has to have GBAs included in it.

And heres something for you.... Nintendo took a 40% profit cut, I'd call that a failure.

ATMA
05-12-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
And heres something for you.... Nintendo took a 40% profit cut, I'd call that a failure.

40% profit cut ..and what about the 60% of profit they still made ?? ...what's MS profit on the xbox? Nintendo 40 % profit cut came form the Cube side ...put the GBA in the picture and you'll get different numbers! Dispide all this they still sold more software in Japan ..and they still making alot of money on their softwares sales. Don't foget they still have alot of big selling franchise .(ie a Cube version of Pokemon, PROBABLY the new Mario and Zelda) Mario Kart DD might be also a huge seller,Zelda WW just got released in Europe prety sure they can break the million mark in Europe alone, Nintendo has a huge universe of franchise that they can and will bring out.(Apperently they will bring new franchises out also)

Oh I still fail to see the point where Nintendo made a mistake. It sounds like you are not happy with your Cube and therefore in YOUR eyes Nintendo made a mistake. I'm having a blast with my Cube.

If a 40% profit cut is a failure in your eyes then I guess MS failed completly with the Xbox .

Pilotwings
05-12-2003, 02:48 PM
well said ATMA. renegade x needs to stop speaking out of his ass. most of the stuff he said are nonsense.

a4164
05-12-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
And heres something for you.... Nintendo took a 40% profit cut, I'd call that a failure.

Nintendo still turned a profit. They are not bleeding money. They still have their handheld monopoly and as far as I'm concerned GameCube is still doing ok. Not great, but ok. I also believe it is #2 worldwide or close enough to Xbox to not really matter. I posted this in an Xbox thread but its worth repeating:


As we all seem to be aware of. Nintendo sold 5.6 million GameCubes from March 31, 2002- March 31, 2003 (1 fiscal year). In addition it had sold about 3.8 million GameCubes from launch to March 31, 2002 (part of the previous fiscal year March 31, 2001- March 31, 2002). Nintendo had also announced shipping 4.5 million GameCubes at last years E3 (almost 1 year ago to the day). That leaves Nintendo with an installed base of about 9.4 million GameCubes worldwide as of March 31, 2003. Add in whatever impact Zelda and the bundle may have done for April and early May and you have Nintendo at close to 10 million GameCubes sold worldwide as of today. Nintendo did miss its prediction for GameCube sales by 40% but only for the last fiscal year. It wanted to sell 10 million GameCubes in addition to the almost 4 million it had, in order to have an installed base of 14 million by March 31, 2003. It only sold close to 6 million (60% of its original forecast, missing its mark by 40%).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/tech/main509108.shtml

Numbers from last years E3:

"GameCube, which went on sale in the United States last November, has shipped about 4.5 million units worldwide so far. Microsoft's Xbox, which debuted about the same time, says it expects to have shipped 3.5 million to 4 million consoles by the end of June."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/134673542_xbox11.html

"Xbox sales are expected to total about 9 million units by the end of June, Microsoft forecasts. On Monday, Nintendo said it sold a weaker-than-expected 5.6 million GameCubes in the fiscal year ended March 31, adding to the 3.8 million sold the year before."

GameCube sold 9.4 million GameCubes worldwide as of March 31, 2002. Xbox sales are predicited to be 9 million by June 30, 2003 (the end of MS fiscal year). Want more proof Xbox is #3 worldwide and GameCube is #2 worldwide:

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/may03/xbox/

"According to the latest NPD Funworld numbers, Microsoft has sold 5.1 million Xbox consoles in United States; and, according to the NPD-like companies Chart Track (United Kingdom) and GfK (France and Germany) another 1.5 million in Europe. The Japanese market continues to vex Microsoft. It's been a year since the Japanese launch, and the official numbers still have Xbox in the 300,000-range."

US: 5.1 million
Europe: 1.5 million
Japan: ~300,000

total: 6.9 million Xbox worldwide

That GameSpy article is dated May 9, 2003. Xbox is predicted to hit 9 million by June 30, 2003.

GameCube did 9.4 million worldwide as of March 31, 2003 down 40% from its predicted 10 million GameCubes in one year for a 14 million worldwide installed base.

GameCube is clearly #2 worldwide. Nintendo still posting profits. Is this a gaming forum or are you trading stock in these companies. As a gamer how can you complain about Nintendo having a #2 console worldwide, with great Nintendo games on the way plus stuff like FF:CC and MGS:TS. And if you do have stock in Nintendo, they still turned a profit in the midst of a global economic recession and have future plans for a next gen console in 2005/2006. You just can't please some people it seems.

[Edit: Links should be fixed now]

XzenoGear
05-12-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Theres no way Nintendo or Mircosoft hold more than 10 to 15% of the market share... where are you getting these numbers. That has to have GBAs included in it.

And heres something for you.... Nintendo took a 40% profit cut, I'd call that a failure.

Renegade, i said Nntendo, not gamecube! so i have included GBAs.

Renegade X
05-12-2003, 07:46 PM
Well, I could say something, since everybody seem's I'm talking from my backside lately. Oh well, As I last recalled we where talking about the Gamecube only... not the GBA. To lose 40 percent of your predicted profits in one year is never a good, it's just too close to 50% to be comfortable.

As for the guy with the long post... I can't conferm any of your speal because the only link that works is the one at GameSpy, so sorry but unless you provide better links, I can't say if your right or wrong.

And lastly, ok, then maybe we shouldn't look at market shares and just look at profits, in which Mircosoft makes Nintendo look like a bug. If you going to include Nintendo's monoply, I'm going to include Mircosoft's, sound fair? No, of course it isn't.... Mircosoft has hand in just about everything nowadays. Heck their even trying to get in the bathroom now. So unless we can agree to put some limits on this argument and actually show some links and number, I say we just call it all off, because none of us are proving anything other than we can flood a topic.

mackensie
05-12-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Well, I could say something, since everybody seem's I'm talking from my backside lately. Oh well, As I last recalled we where talking about the Gamecube only... not the GBA. To lose 40 percent of your predicted profits in one year is never a good, it's just too close to 50% to be comfortable.

As for the guy with the long post... I can't conferm any of your speal because the only link that works is the one at GameSpy, so sorry but unless you provide better links, I can't say if your right or wrong.
who cares about "predicted profits"? Maybe the "predictions" were very far off. Afterall, even the Japanese can't see into the future.

I don't know if you actually clicked on the links, but all 3 worked for me. try again, they are major sites, and are NOT down.

a4164
05-12-2003, 09:34 PM
links should work now will triple check after this.

ok why don't we look at Nintendo's competition as a whole. Well whats the point of that naturally MS and Sony are conglomerates. Nintendo is just a videogame company. This is a videogame forum. I'm here to talk videogame industry. So how about Xbox and how it has effected MS and what PlayStation does for Sony. We already know how Nintendo is doing with GameCube (posted profits, #2 worldwide). So first up, Microsoft. Xbox is filed under Microsofts' Home and Entertainment division. Here are MS's Home and Entertainment divison's losses.

Q4 2001 (xbox launched) = $180 million
Q3 2002 = $ 177 million
Q4 2002 (last 3 months of 2002 when MS was bundling games) = $348 million

4 Quarters in 1 year, heavy losses per quarter. More than half a billion dollars (USD) lost in 6 months ($525 million). You think that is smart business. That is the stupidest of ways to run a company.

MS Home and Entertainment Division:

Q3 2001/Q3 2002:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2480001.stm

"It lost $177m, up from a loss of $68m in the same period in 2001. This loss is by far the largest of Microsoft's unprofitable divisions."

Q4 2001/ Q4 2002:

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,109172,00.asp

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/software/business/story/0,2000023555,20271754,00.htm

http://www.zdnet.com.au/gamespot/news/story/0,2000011229,20271760,00.htm

"Microsoft's losses on the Xbox almost doubled in the final quarter of last year, contributing to an overall operating loss of some US$348 million for Microsoft's home and entertainment division."

"The company loses money on each Xbox it sells, with some analysts pegging the shortfall at more than US$100 per US$199 console, meaning that strong sales for the platform actually increase its losses."

http://www.msnbc.com/news/772001.asp?0si=-#BODY

"MICROSOFT EXPECTS TO lose $750 million in the current fiscal year ending June 30 and another $1.1 billion in the next fiscal year"

$750 million for fiscal year June 30, 2001 - June 30, 2002.
$1.1 billion for fiscal year June 30, 2002 - June 30, 2003.

Yes what great business. Microsoft is really gonna kick everyones arse by spending all their money. If it was any other company than Microsoft. If its strongest earners Windows and Office divisions were carrying the company, you think they would keep Xbox even a single extra quarter at these rates. God lord, that is BS. MS still has stock holders to answer to. You think they want to hear you lost close to $2 billion in 2 years.

Ok, how about the great Sony. You crucify Nintendo by falling short of profits by 40% after 3 strong years of profit growth. How about Sony and how it did last fiscal year:

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/904591.asp?cp1=1#BODY

"Sony?s operating profit margin was a mere 2.5 percent of revenues in the business year ended on March 31"

"The electronics and entertainment conglomerate posted a 111.14 billion yen ($922.2 million) consolidated net loss for January-March, its worst quarterly loss in more than eight years and dwarfing the year-ago deficit of 5.46 billion yen."

- Once again close to $1 billion USD loss in 1Q 2003 (only 3 months) for a huge corporation. MS and Sony can take heavy losses like this and still exist because they are giant mega conglomerates. Nintendo is tiny in comparison, Nintendo hasn't had a year in which they lost tons and tons of money because they make smart products. Products that sell at cost. Nintendo is smart business. Sony and Microsoft are NOT.

Sony predicts a 50% profit loss next year:

"The company also gave a cautious outlook for the new business year that started on April 1, projecting a net profit of 50 billion yen, less than half the previous year?s already disappointing result and well below analysts? consensus forecast of 180 billion yen, according to estimates from Reuters Research."

"Investors are worried not just about stalling consumer demand, but that Sony may not soon be able to fire up new profit generators as the PlayStation 2 nears its earnings peak."

"Even PlayStation 2 shipments will slip this fiscal year, Sony said, to 20 million units from last year?s 22.5 million. But analysts had expected that Sony?s game hardware would soon run out of living rooms to conquer, while sales of game software titles would probably take up the slack."

PlayStation is Sony's only division that is posting strong profits. If you are following the music industry you will know how much trouble Sony Muisc and its fellow members of the RIAA are in. With the exception of X-Men2 (Fox), movie theater revenues have been down with fewer people going to the movies this year than last. So revenue is down from Sony's movie studios.

So please, RenX, stfu about Nintendo and the fact that they were shy 40% of their profits forecast. It was a forecast, they can't predict the future 100%. Who in business can? The world is in a recession for gods sake. Nintendo didn't lose any money!

Renegade X
05-13-2003, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by mackensie
who cares about "predicted profits"? Maybe the "predictions" were very far off. Afterall, even the Japanese can't see into the future.

I don't know if you actually clicked on the links, but all 3 worked for me. try again, they are major sites, and are NOT down.

Well theres a reason why company's do annual reports and predictions you know, and I really shouldn't call them predictions more like goals. I don't have to run threw this speal with you. Nintendo set a bar for themselves, they came up very short of it. The End move on... Deal with it.

I did actually click them but I think that was about 4 hours ago right before my stupid cable went out and I lost my connection.

PS: Good Links.... but all I got form them was the total of the XBOX, anybody wanna try and find Nintendo's total number of units??

ATMA
05-13-2003, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Well theres a reason why company's do annual reports and predictions you know, and I really shouldn't call them predictions more like goals. I don't have to run threw this speal with you. Nintendo set a bar for themselves, they came up very short of it. The End move on... Deal with it.

So did MS,and they came also short(dispite reaching some numbers they still don't make profits) and they are selling on multi system 3rd party software ..that doesn't help either ..heh?! ,But you keep making exceptions for MS and contradicting yourself with you arguments about why Nintendo failed.

cic?ron
05-13-2003, 09:38 AM
Hey guys, I guess you've just discovered who ReX is. Now ask him what the X stands for.

mackensie
05-13-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by ATMA
So did MS,and they came also short(dispite reaching some numbers they still don't make profits) and they are selling on multi system 3rd party software ..that doesn't help either ..heh?! ,But you keep making exceptions for MS and contradicting yourself with you arguments about why Nintendo failed.
what he said. Microsoft's own PR people have backed down their "goals" and are still, just barely making the goals.

Renegade X
05-13-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by mackensie
what he said. Microsoft's own PR people have backed down their "goals" and are still, just barely making the goals.

I'll put it like this.... Who do you expect more from...

A company who has spent the last 20 years being the leader of the console market and being the best at everything they did...

-OR-

A company who just up and desided one day they could make a console with PC calibur hardware and see if they could get a footing in the market.

Nintendo is in this for the profit right now, they have nothing to prove, they make great games because they want to make tons of money and because they enjoy doing it.

Mircosoft is trying to establish their foundation right now, they knew they where going to lose money, but they don't care, their just wanted to get a footing in and hopeing that they get enough users so that the console they turn out can possiblely turn out a small profit.

Kid0_oIcarus
05-13-2003, 04:12 PM
You mean the company with a history of delivering solid, quality titles- with a misconstrued image?

or

A software giant, with a fair number of hits, vast amounts of funds backing it, a means-justify-the-ends approach to business, and a desire to rule or exert its influence in the videogame, and later the entertainment, industry the way it does in the OS market?

XzenoGear
05-13-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Well, I could say something, since everybody seem's I'm talking from my backside lately. Oh well, As I last recalled we where talking about the Gamecube only... not the GBA. To lose 40 percent of your predicted profits in one year is never a good, it's just too close to 50% to be comfortable.

As for the guy with the long post... I can't conferm any of your speal because the only link that works is the one at GameSpy, so sorry but unless you provide better links, I can't say if your right or wrong.

And lastly, ok, then maybe we shouldn't look at market shares and just look at profits, in which Mircosoft makes Nintendo look like a bug. If you going to include Nintendo's monoply, I'm going to include Mircosoft's, sound fair? No, of course it isn't.... Mircosoft has hand in just about everything nowadays. Heck their even trying to get in the bathroom now. So unless we can agree to put some limits on this argument and actually show some links and number, I say we just call it all off, because none of us are proving anything other than we can flood a topic.

So renegade, you are trying to compare M$ market share including Windows XP Os, and others with the GC/GBA? is WIN XP a new M$ console?

Renegade X
05-13-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Kid0_oIcarus
You mean the company with a history of delivering solid, quality titles- with a misconstrued image?

or

A software giant, with a fair number of hits, vast amounts of funds backing it, a means-justify-the-ends approach to business, and a desire to rule or exert its influence in the videogame, and later the entertainment, industry the way it does in the OS market?

Yep thats about it. Of course thats your visions of the companies, pretty accuate but if I asked maybe a XBOX fan, they'd have a different way out saying what you just did.

And XzenoGear, is the GBA/SP a home console? Get my point, they both my play video games but their two different markets. One of which Nintendo has a monoply in and it's not the Gamecube thats for sure.

Drunken Savior
05-13-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Yep thats about it. Of course thats your visions of the companies, pretty accuate but if I asked maybe a XBOX fan, they'd have a different way out saying what you just did.


(Snaps fingers a few times)
The company that follows the voice of a visionary who has had many great ideas, but of late their dedication to the handheld market has taken away some of the motivation to create new stunning hits on the home console like it did in the 1990s?

-or-

The Multibillion dollar company, started by a college dropout, that wanted to do anything to get it's foot and place it solidly into the billion dollar market and have sucessfully done so by getting their product up there in full stock next to it's prime competitors?

Renegade X
05-13-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Drunken Savior
(Snaps fingers a few times)
The company that follows the voice of a visionary who has had many great ideas, but of late their dedication to the handheld market has taken away some of the motivation to create new stunning hits on the home console like it did in the 1990s?

-or-

The Multibillion dollar company, started by a college dropout, that wanted to do anything to get it's foot and place it solidly into the billion dollar market and have sucessfully done so by getting their product up there in full stock next to it's prime competitors?

See what I mean.

ATMA
05-14-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Renegade X
I'll put it like this.... Who do you expect more from...

A company who has spent the last 20 years being the leader of the console market and being the best at everything they did...

-OR-

A company who just up and desided one day they could make a console with PC calibur hardware and see if they could get a footing in the market.

Nintendo is in this for the profit right now, they have nothing to prove, they make great games because they want to make tons of money and because they enjoy doing it.

Mircosoft is trying to establish their foundation right now, they knew they where going to lose money, but they don't care, their just wanted to get a footing in and hopeing that they get enough users so that the console they turn out can possiblely turn out a small profit.

Oh please Renegade stop making exception for MS. MS ..from the beginning they were aiming for profits that's what companies do ...right now you're tellling us MS just wanted to bring a console out ..without making profits ..just to make a name. Nice one there.

Allow me to change a few things in this message I quoted.

The company that follows the voice of some visionarIES who has had many great ideas, but of late their dedication to the handheld market has taken away some of the motivation to create new stunning hits on the home console like it did in the 1990s? WICH THEY STILL DO ,BUT FOR SOME ODD REASON THEY DON'T GET RECONIZED (well the awards show must say something) BUT EVERYBODY DECIDE TO GO FOR ANOTHER FPS RIPOFF OR ANOTHER WARGAME!

-or-

The Multibillion dollar company, started by a college dropout(who doesn't know a thing about games,just put him in the same situation as Miyamoto), that wanted to do anything to get it's foot and place it solidly into the billion dollar market and have sucessfully done so by getting their product up there in full stock WITH NO competitors or by simply buying them out and shut their office down or buy them out and use their product to hype something wich isn't his product?

Wich one will you take?!

Mohtools
05-14-2003, 01:21 PM
I will choose second one. I will add to your message by saying that this man also steals people ideas such as OS. Also MS use un-ethical tactics to gain power; For example removing java from Windows. Last but not least, why the hell did he enter the gaming industry?

mackensie
05-14-2003, 02:30 PM
Interesting portrayal of microsoft and the logic behind the xbox. this is a quote from this article (http://firingsquad.gamers.com/features/xbox_conference_2003/page4.asp)
The line that this author presents is pretty much my view of the situation as well. read the rest of the article, its a pretty good read.

Setting up for the next round

With $2 billion in its budget, Xbox is sure to be a financial failure. Microsoft is ready, able, and willing to take a loss in order to supplant or at least legitimately challenge Sony. They know they should have been there in the wild and woolly days of the early 32 bit wars, but they missed that boat and now have to slug it out with the established champion for supremacy.

The $2B investment is typical of Microsoft. As a whole, Microsoft is a smart, agile and vicious company ? traits that are rare in such corporate behemoths. Like an army, they concentrate maximum force on a chosen point of attack, break the enemy lines, advance and then fortify the ground that they captured. In war and business, everything is a gamble and the biggest payoffs come from the biggest gambles. By providing such a massive financial investment, Microsoft has created that maximum force to improve its chances of success. They?re taking huge gambles with that money and trying new ideas like XSN and the home entertainment system.

As noted earlier though, there?s more to MS than simple viciousness. They?re also smart and agile. Microsoft is smart enough to limit its risk by providing only the $2B, by not overextending themselves. There?s certainly little doubt that they could throw $10B at Xbox if they wanted to, but would it really improve their chances against Sony that much? MS has shown its agility in not only trying out new ideas, but in having multiple plans of attack. They?re not banking on Xbox (or even Xbox 2) replacing PCs. They?re not banking that those products will necessarily become home entertainment centers.

Pilotwings
05-15-2003, 03:51 AM
great find mackensie. :cool guy:

TheHardware
05-15-2003, 05:34 PM
Darn good thread
i actually read every long post

ok first off lets make one thing clear NINTENDO AND MICROSOFT HAVE BOTH LOWERD THIER NUMBERS FOR LAST TWO FISCAL YEAR AND SONY HASENT... they are making adjusted profits...based on expectation...its still profit but only because they expect less ........check link

http://www.gamecubicle.com/news-nintendo_earnings_revision_2002.htm (http://)

originally posted by a4164
[QUOTE]Ok, how about the great Sony. You crucify Nintendo by falling short of profits by 40% after 3 strong years of profit growth. How about Sony and how it did last fiscal year:

"Sony?s operating profit margin was a mere 2.5 percent of revenues in the business year ended on March 31"

"The electronics and entertainment conglomerate posted a 111.14 billion yen ($922.2 million) consolidated net loss for January-March, its worst quarterly loss in more than eight years and dwarfing the year-ago deficit of 5.46 billion yen."

ahh to shay....these losses have nothing to do with sony playstation..you guys are not makeing sense...everyones coming down on renegade because he is using microsofts bank against nintendos bank......then say oh you cant do that keep it in the videogame arena......then use sony losses which have nothing to so with playstation 2 sony is very profitable...
check links
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7478 (http://)
(interesting link on bottom of this page)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1781339.stm (http://)
(check those side links as well)

and excuse me isint profit loss...the same as getting paid less.....but still makeing money...nintendo makes money...but sony also makes money....you people brag and boast about the million sellers you guys have oh zelda oh metroid....uhh excuse me what console has the biggest selling first party game....thats right sony....gt3 11 million copies worldwide
thats more than all of your million sellers put together

sony has more than broken even on hardware and software is what is pushing them right now ...even your article said it"Investors are worried not just about stalling consumer demand, but that Sony may not soon be able to fire up new profit generators as the PlayStation 2 nears its earnings peak."
mostly everyone whos gonna buy a ps2 already has....maybe 10 to 12 million more before ps3

as far as microsoft being the evil corperation helbent on owning everything in the world....your right....but if it were you that had the oppertunity bill had...wouldnt you take it...."insert lie here"

dang...aint this to pic about nec ad nintendo

ATMA
05-17-2003, 03:43 PM
sony also makes money....you people brag and boast about the million sellers you guys have oh zelda oh metroid....uhh excuse me what console has the biggest selling first party game....thats right sony....gt3 11 million copies worldwide
thats more than all of your million sellers put together

True to that...only (lucky) thing is ..When Sony released it..it was also the first AAA title that came out after a looong wait after buying an over hyped console(Wich might lead to : hey Sony brings a console out but doesn't bring some big games so perhaps the next gen consoles i'll wait longer or go with the Cube2 or Xbox2)..Plus it was probably the only AAA that came and didn't had any type of competition..For MS and Nin it is different ..MP and Splinter Cell got released in almost the same period,if i'm correct Zelda also had some competition it does make a difference, compared to what GT 3 went through. ..and comparing the current userbase of Cube and Zelda just got released in Europe I say Zelda is doing great(except in Japan) Ofcourse Zelda won't even come close to what GT3 did.

Sony makes nowadays less money on their hardware(Too much price drop) .. With GT being their biggest selling 1st party games...Now because of a huge userbase ..Sony got out..imagine now if Sony was in the same situation as Nintendo ..they only woulda make money from their hardware (wich if it was in the same situation as Nintendo woulda be around +9 million adding some price drop, because of the pricedrop they won't make alot on their hardware) And selling on GT 3 their biggest first party games.. Do you think Sony woulda still be around?? ...Nintendo got GBA ..selling some huge 1st party games (I can't believe that all those billions they made on Pokemon during the n64/pokemon hype is allready gone) Nintendo makes some profits from their Cube...making great profits on their softwares.GBA hardwares/softwares. Licences (Do you know how many people are using Pokemon licence for selling their products?Around the world?) Even on those 3rd party GBA ..they make money. Next Generation console war ..will be different. The competition will be different..MS is learning from their mistakes, Nintendo will be much more aggressive(They said their will be, a few times allready, I hope their serious about it this time). Everything points to the next gen of console war, will be different for all 3

TheHardware
05-17-2003, 05:01 PM
it almost sounds like your telling me microsoft or nintendo is gonna mop sony up next round.......hehheheheh...

some good points though...except for you suppose a lot if this and if tha...welll gt didnt have any competition so it "did" dell 11 million, not sonys fault....they are the most profitable and they have only exeded expectation.....so...hey some of us dont like it but we gatta live with it


anfd by the way go to the ps2 boards and read my must read e3 breakdown.....

ATMA
05-18-2003, 12:03 PM
Well I did said ..it will be different for all 3 (and not only for Nin and MS) but it won't be the same dance ..and (personal I think it would be borring if it's the same ol story again) know what I mean?!


GT is a good game..I remember how happy I was when I got the Japanese version, it deserve it I guess.

Oh I don't mind Sony exceeding expectations. I mean it's the rpg-station anyways. ;)

XzenoGear
05-18-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
Yep thats about it. Of course thats your visions of the companies, pretty accuate but if I asked maybe a XBOX fan, they'd have a different way out saying what you just did.

And XzenoGear, is the GBA/SP a home console? Get my point, they both my play video games but their two different markets. One of which Nintendo has a monoply in and it's not the Gamecube thats for sure.

Renegade you know, I never knew that All Nintendo merchandise, has sold 1.6 billion! to date! FCUK!!

Pilotwings
05-20-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by XzenoGear
Renegade you know, I never knew that All Nintendo merchandise, has sold 1.6 billion! to date! FCUK!!

yeah i noticed that at the end of every nintendo press release. they sold over 1.6 billion games. it used to be 1.4 billion a year or two ago.

Icarus4578
05-20-2003, 03:17 PM
After much company bashing, i'll just interject with my thoughts. Nintendo is the best game company of the three; no question. I'm happy they're teaming with NEC (didn't I hear recently that NEC was re-entering the home console race in which they were #1 in Japan with their PC Enging + CD system? Maybe this is what they mean - they're teaming with Nintendo). Very smart move on Nintendo's part. Microsoft is here for one thing - money. Nintendo is here for two things - money and video games. Which console is the best... is an opinion. Which is most powerful is X-Box, no contest. BTW, I read earlier someone saying a DVD holds 10x the memory of a CD. More like 15x. I hope that after these two systems Nintendo comes out the winner. They certainly can; it's all up to them and whther or not third parties give them a chance and actually support the console like they're supposed to be doing in the first place.