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mobilesniper
02-20-2003, 10:30 AM
Nintendo knows the business.Period. Sony should be a shame that one of there games (Pokemon) can profit as much as Playstation 1.

Pokemon:Movies,games,shows..etc
Sony: Games by other people..thats it.

When was the last time you bought a Sony product other than a Playstation?

Sony Gaming Dept makes 40% of Sony profits.One false move by Sony and they will be asking for help like Square.

Money and business:haha:

Renegade X
02-20-2003, 12:56 PM
I'd like to just say, that I totally disagree with you.... because Nintendo may have knew how do do business, but as of late with title after title being canceled, it's become obvious that Big N does not know how to condict itself business wise. Yes, back in the day, when it was Sega and Nintendo going head to head every step of the way, they knew business... but when Sony came out with the PlayStation and they opted stay with a cartadge for their games, they made their first big business mistake... then when Sega dropped out, it seemed to me like Nintendo just got lazy... now we come to the Gamecube era.... for the price tag of the console, it is hugely lover priced... I mean for 80 bucks more, with the XBOX, you can get a hard drive, built in Ethernet adaptor, dvd playback and at least 2 games for free.... I don't care what you say, that one game deal is not worth it when you can get so much more.... Plus, Nintendo has made it clear they are not down with the whole online gaming idea.... and that right there is inexcusable... to be a console maker nowadays and not have a online gaming stradegy is about as smooth a pouncing on a hedgehog... Nintendo KNEW how to do business... but they got ahold of something and smoked away too much... they still know how to make great games... but business wise, no way, their about as business savy as homeless drunk man.

Alucard
02-20-2003, 01:01 PM
You know Renegade, I'm getting the distinct feeling that you're a little biased towards the XBox and a little distasteful of the gamecube.. I could be wrong :D

Renegade X
02-20-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Alucard
You know Renegade, I'm getting the distinct feeling that you're a little biased towards the XBox and a little distasteful of the gamecube.. I could be wrong :D


Nah, I've ripped on the XBOX many of times... just not on the forum, it seems very Gamecube heavy here, I just love struring up trouble and starting arguments.... as long as it doesn't get personal I love arguing about things. I just feel that the XBOX is wrongfully being diss just because the company that holds it up is Mircosoft. I love the gamecube... aside from .hack I've been playing Prime and Master Quest the most nowadays.

But you have to admit.... the XBOX has been doing better buisness wise than the PS2 or GCN... sales and gamewise is another story though.

Alucard
02-20-2003, 02:02 PM
This place is a little gamecube intensive. Makes me wonder why though. Perhaps we've grabbed a bunch of gamers who like seeing new stuff and aren't total fanboys of a single system. At least outright.. Though I do wish developers would focus on either XBox or Gamecube. I mean PS2 is all well and good, but its the least impressive graphically. I'd like to see them take advantage of whats currently out there.

Kid0_oIcarus
02-20-2003, 02:06 PM
That's up to debate, Renegade X.

Because if by business wise, you mean increase profit.. then the Xbox is a horrible failure...

BUT

Since this is Micro$oft we're talking about... ($= "With my money I can do anything, even avert impending doom from antitrust lawsuits!")

And their first goal is market domination.. er.. increasing market share (ALSO SEE: to crush the competition..)

Then they're not doing too shabby.. (ALSO SEE: Japan) with their free games and all..

You gotta give 'em credit though... I don't think any other company would've made it this far...

Black Sugar
02-20-2003, 03:16 PM
Even if the N64 was a "mistake" as Renegade X recall,
Nintendo still manage to have 4 games on the top-10 best sellers every months.

X-box got online capabilities, DVD players ect...so what ?

Microsoft are still losing a lot of money along the way, while Nintendo are sitting back on the beach and making profit out on every console they're selling.


Now tell me , who knows how to make good bussiness......:sing:

mobilesniper
02-20-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Black Bahamut
Even if the N64 was a "mistake" as Renegade X recall,
Nintendo still manage to have 4 games on the top-10 best sellers every months.

X-box got online capabilities, DVD players ect...so what ?

Microsoft are still losing a lot of money along the way, while Nintendo are sitting back on the beach and making profit out on every console they're selling.


Now tell me , who knows how to make good bussiness......:sing:

Thank you:D
I dont need my system to be a computer.

Renegade X
02-20-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by mobilesniper
Thank you:D
I dont need my system to be a computer.

Ummm.... it already is a computer, in fact all of them are, and thats where the consoles future lies. You can debate against that point but the fact is, it's true, in fact it's already too late aside from the Cube (which remember folks pull back and look at whats been happening lately with all the game cancelations, numbers and predictions that say the Cube is in serious danger of falling into thrid place, and the fact that soon the prices will be dropping again) the PS2 and XBOX are already well on their way being light PCs.... gaming can't just survive on a graphics processor, main board, input ports, and output ports alone nowadays..... they also need modems or ethernet adaptors and a hard drive.... not to meantion that they have to do just a little more than just play video games.

Also, when I say the Xbox is doing better business wise, I mean more than just making a profit (which nintendo isn't making the kind of profits you think they are, they have to cut bakc Gamecube production if you would remember and thats losing money.... also, of course their sitting on the beach, they have a monoply in the handheld market.... and gee, I seem to remember another company having a monoply, only it was just a OS one.... if Mircosoft was based any where but the US, they wouldn't seem as evil as they have been made out to be.) or bury the competition.... they also have to advertise the system and games... keep consumer and DEVELOPER confidence up.... of course Mircosoft will be losing money more than making it... their the new boy in town and they have fight to set their mark in the gaming world... Nintendo really hasn't had to fight to stay alive.... I mean, Nintendo has always been here.... most of us grew up with Nintendo being at number one the whole way.... but now theirs two very powerful and very ruthless competitors for Nintendo to deal with.... For the first time, Nintendo does stand that risk of being over shadowed by not only one but TWO other companies in a market they paved the way in. And right now.... personally, I don't see them doing much in the way on the business level to ensure that they will be around in 10 years... Nintendo makes great games, and they do have the hardware to be a true competitor.... the means are there... but Nintendo just isn't doing anything to push their console.... at least their not doing anything to push it in the US... the commercials I've seen for their games and offers are good..... but compared to some of the ones I've seen for the PS2 and XBOX, Nintendo's is put to shame.

mobilesniper
02-20-2003, 05:19 PM
1.I didn?t want to take it there?If Microsoft wanted to really rule all they had to do was just do like Apple. Develop computer and the OS(which they already have and call a day). Why didn?t they do that? I can tell ya. Microsoft is already is in trouble the Government. They think there easy way out was to make a video game system. Big brother is always looking for ways to defeat you. As soon as you?re richer then the government they will bury you.
2.Videogames need little more. That where there was this machine that became real popular in the 90?s call a PC. I don?t need the PS3 and Xbox with a built in fax or scanner.
3.Nintendo will always be around because they know how to work the markets not make the market. MS is buying everything to make the market.
4.Give me a commercial that will beat appearing video game mascot appearing on Milk ads? (In terms of people actually paying attention to the commercial)
Now games are another factor in the sells. Games don?t make the money. Just like you pointed its does little extra things. 8 bit Nintendo-a gun??PS2 Dvd?.the future plz not a scanner.:crazy:

Black Sugar
02-20-2003, 05:23 PM
Ummm.... it already is a computer, in fact all of them are, and thats where the consoles future lies. You can debate against that point but the fact is, it's true, in fact it's already too late aside from the Cube (which remember folks pull back and look at whats been happening lately with all the game cancelations, numbers and predictions that say the Cube is in serious danger of falling into thrid place.


How can you state that's a fact ? Years ago I could say the same thing about the Sega CD and FMV games being the future, which is not. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but there's still so much to be seen before making that kind of conclusion around the gaming industry.

....and the fact that soon the prices will be dropping again) the PS2 and XBOX are already well on their way being light PCs.... gaming can't just survive on a graphics processor, main board, input ports, and output ports alone nowadays..... they also need modems or ethernet adaptors and a hard drive.... not to meantion that they have to do just a little more than just play video games.

Price are dropping because there's three console on the market, that's all.

1/3 of american household already have a home PC. Putting DVD players and such can only be seen as gadget too attract more comsummers. But it doesn`t mean that game console are becoming PC.

I have a cell phone which I can surf the web, play games and also have internal alarm clock. Does it mean that my cell phone will became a mini-pc, the new Gameboy or better yet , a alarm clock radio ? Nope, those are purely gadgets . The main purpose of a console is to play videogames, everything else are nothing else than stuffs to attract more consummers.


Also, when I say the Xbox is doing better business wise, I mean more than just making a profit (which nintendo isn't making the kind of profits you think they are, they have to cut bakc Gamecube production if you would remember and thats losing money.... also, of course their sitting on the beach, they have a monoply in the handheld market.... and gee, I seem to remember another company having a monoply, only it was just a OS one.... if Mircosoft was based any where but the US, they wouldn't seem as evil as they have been made out to be.)

I`m one of those few who doesn`t see Microsoft has evil. Whenever there someone or something succesful in life they'll always be peoples bashing over it for no reason at all, no matter where it`s from. Look at those pokemon haters ! Nintendo have the monopoly over the handlheld market because they worked for it. end of discussion.


they also have to advertise the system and games... keep consumer and DEVELOPER confidence up.... of course Mircosoft will be losing money more than making it... their the new boy in town and they have fight to set their mark in the gaming world... Nintendo really hasn't had to fight to stay alive.... I mean, Nintendo has always been here.... most of us grew up with Nintendo being at number one the whole way.... but now theirs two very powerful and very ruthless competitors for Nintendo to deal with.... For the first time, Nintendo does stand that risk of being over shadowed by not only one but TWO other companies in a market they paved the way in. And right now.... personally, I don't see them doing much in the way on the business level to ensure that they will be around in 10 years

This is why Nintendo are beggining to gave their own franchises and some funds to other developers. But I must say , that Microsoft seem to care more about third-parties who's working for theirs console. I'm working on the games industry, and know Microsoft are well knows for the dedicationaround developers. Something which Nintendo really lack.... but than again, nintendo have been in the industry for more 20 years, unlike microsoft, they don't have nothing to prove....

Being confident can also kill you......:sing:

a4164
02-20-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Renegade X
.... also, of course their sitting on the beach, they have a monoply in the handheld market.... and gee, I seem to remember another company having a monoply, only it was just a OS one.... if Mircosoft was based any where but the US, they wouldn't seem as evil as they have been made out to be.


Not to sound defensive but I don't think you can really compare Nintendo's monopoly to Microsoft's monopoly.

GBA is what $70, and $100 for GBA SP. with ~$30 average per game.

Now money wise, this is what the Microsoft monopoly feels like. For some reason or another (my job) I have become dependent on a Windows OS and MS Office. Now I'm not the type to go getting what I need off of warez sites. I'm just a poor n00b. Sadly the Microsoft monopoly has its grips in me. Now I wouldn't call Microsoft evil, but I do hate them. Not anything personal. I just can't really afford to live in a Mircosoft world. On top of all that, the only place around me that I can get computer stuff is at our local CompUSA (another fiendish corporation I can assure you) and this is what I have to deal with:

MS Windows XP Home Edition Retail: $199
MS Windows XP Pro Edition Retail: $299
MS Office XP Standard Retail: $479
MS Office XP Professional Retail: $579
MS Office XP Developer Retail: $799

Thanks to the MS monopoly those prices won't ever go down until the next editions come. If they were non-US based, believe me, I would still hate them.

Now back to Nintendo. Does Nintendo know the business of selling consoles today. Maybe. They obviously aren't quite as edgy. But to me Nintendo at least knows the first rule. Videogame machines are about videogames and Nintendo still makes the best in the business. Now if you want to talk about set-top boxes or convergence machines like Sony and MS. Well Nintendo is nothing like Sony and MS. As a Nintendo fanboy, I really appreciate that. I got a Metriod/Mario/StarFox in one year. I got Ocarina of Time in high resolution for free with Wind Waker coming next month. Nintendo set to announce, possibly show Mario128/Pikmin2 at E3. Good lord I love Nintendo.

DBJAY
02-20-2003, 07:30 PM
I think Nintendo's current management is making serious mistakes. The GBA, shipped flawed with a major light issue. The GBA SP corrects that, but the original should have never shipped.

Also, what is up with their player's choice line priced higher than the Xbox Platinum and PS2 greatest hits? When consumers see the PS2 with over 30 games for 19.99, and 16 Xbox titles for 19.99, but the lowest priced Gamer's choice is 29.99....when do you think they are going to go?

Renegade X
02-20-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by DBJAY
I think Nintendo's current management is making serious mistakes. The GBA, shipped flawed with a major light issue. The GBA SP corrects that, but the original should have never shipped.

Also, what is up with their player's choice line priced higher than the Xbox Platinum and PS2 greatest hits? When consumers see the PS2 with over 30 games for 19.99, and 16 Xbox titles for 19.99, but the lowest priced Gamer's choice is 29.99....when do you think they are going to go?

See somebody understands what I'm saying... come on folks, spot looking at the situation like a pro-Gamecube advocate and look at the situation that Nintendo is in.

a4164
02-20-2003, 09:12 PM
Yes I would agree the Nintendo Player Choices are not priced equally to Sony's Greatest Hits or Xbox's Platinum Hits.

But why isn't Halo (xbox's biggest selling title) on there? Or Dead or Alive3? What is the criteria to get on the Platinum list? Certainly not sales because some of those titles on there didn't sell well at all and of course the biggest selling titles are not reduced in price (i.e. Splinter Cell, Mechassault). Sony isn't immune to this either. FFX, Metal Gear Solid 2, and the Grand Theft Auto titles are still not on greatest hits either; yet they sold like crazy. I'm guessing units sold is not the criteria for Sony's Greatest Hits or Xbox's Platinum Hits. Or maybe the system sellers are not the ones allowed to be lowered in price...

I wonder what Nintendo's criteria for Player Choice is. Did Metroid Prime sell well. I own it, but at reduced price I can get a copy for my UT clan buddy...at least we aren't in N64 days, Player Choice was $40. Ouch.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add, GBA has competition. WonderSwan kicks booty :P

Renegade X
02-20-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by a4164
Yes I would agree the Nintendo Player Choices are not priced equally to Sony's Greatest Hits or Xbox's Platinum Hits.

But why isn't Halo (xbox's biggest selling title) on there? Or Dead or Alive3? What is the criteria to get on the Platinum list? Certainly not sales because some of those titles on there didn't sell well at all and of course the biggest selling titles are not reduced in price (i.e. Splinter Cell, Mechassault). Sony isn't immune to this either. FFX, Metal Gear Solid 2, and the Grand Theft Auto titles are still not on greatest hits either; yet they sold like crazy. I'm guessing units sold is not the criteria for Sony's Greatest Hits or Xbox's Platinum Hits. Or maybe the system sellers are not the ones allowed to be lowered in price...

I wonder what Nintendo's criteria for Player Choice is. Did Metroid Prime sell well. I own it, but at reduced price I can get a copy for my UT clan buddy...at least we aren't in N64 days, Player Choice was $40. Ouch.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add, GBA has competition. WonderSwan kicks booty :P

I get where your coming from and I don't understand either...

And yeah, the GBA has competition in ONE country, Japan.... and to be honest with you, I'd love to see the WonderSwan in the US.

a4164
02-20-2003, 09:37 PM
Damn straight, where is the petition to get Wonderswan in the US :cool guy:

My NeoGeo Pocket is lonely

Kid0_oIcarus
02-21-2003, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by DBJAY
I think Nintendo's current management is making serious mistakes. The GBA, shipped flawed with a major light issue. The GBA SP corrects that, but the original should have never shipped.


This might be a valid point.. IF THE GBA SOLD POORLY.

As it is now, they've managed to sell the GBA...without the backlight.

Now they lower the price of the original, and while it will still sell- they introduce a slightly upgraded product with an obvious bigger profit margin that is a guaranteed sell.

How is that a bad business move?

Renegade X
02-21-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Kid0_oIcarus
This might be a valid point.. IF THE GBA SOLD POORLY.

As it is now, they've managed to sell the GBA...without the backlight.

Now they lower the price of the original, and while it will still sell- they introduce a slightly upgraded product with an obvious bigger profit margin that is a guaranteed sell.

How is that a bad business move?

As he said kid, the GBA should of shipped with some kind of lighting device.... that single worse problem I have with the GBA is lighting... and Nintendo knew what they where doing, it would be one thing if Nintendo hadn't of had the means or the fact that a lit handheld device never exsist... but the fact is it had been done one did exsist (anybody remember the gamegear?? best handheld device even if it was a little bulky) before it. So you tell me.... how is it a bad business move? Well, I'll say this... I would also excuse Nintendo from not putting a lighting device into the GBA from the starts.... IF buyers hadn't of been begging for one ever since the GameBoy Color came out.

a4164
02-21-2003, 01:13 PM
I think at the time GBA was being developed. Nintendo of Japan was receiving alot of complaints from parents that GameBoy was costing them a fortune in batteries. Nintendo made the decision to not include a lighting device because it would:

a) kill battery life, resulting in even more furious complaints not to mention the current GBA can last an insane amount of time on a new set of batteries and

b) if the backlight dies, it would result in an inferior product anyways, and we all know Nintendo doesn't take those kinds of risks with products (except Virtual Boy).

If you recall, the GameGear used an insane amount of batteries with short play time. It was not an ideal mobile gaming device.

So now a few years have passed and Nintendo has incorporated new ideals that not only please gamers but parents with the introduction of the GBA SP. There is still no backlight because Nintendo doesn't have to worry about it dying and ruining the product. The battery life with and without the light on is still insanely long. AND to please all the parents in Japan and around the world. The GBA SP comes with its own fully rechargable battery. Oh yeah! Now duracell won't have its paws in me!

The Steved!
02-21-2003, 06:09 PM
Nintendo knows the business when their alone in it. But i bet if Sony made a new Hanheld console they would eat nintendo up again in terms of sales by insering a mp3 of some sort!