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View Full Version : No used games allowed on Xbox 720


Icarus4578
03-21-2013, 11:16 AM
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/02/06/saints-row-dev-xbox-720-used-game-ban-fantastic

No more used games nor borrowing allowed.

Oh, and mandatory game installs (once per disc, then it's rendered useless). You cannot play from the discs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/20/xbox-durango-requires-all-games-to-be-installed

Congrats Microsoft, you're finished.

Rubeus
03-21-2013, 11:38 AM
I think Microsoft's probably going to drop all that block used game business prior to launch, they should be aware of all the negative feedback from users.

Ernst
03-21-2013, 11:41 AM
Boom. Microsoft was in with a really strong chance to steal me, and I'm a person who's fairly attached to Playstation- but they've killed it. I'll be sticking with PS4.

Icarus4578
03-21-2013, 12:17 PM
According to some developers, these features are considered wonderful, because they want to destroy the second-hand market.

Ernst
03-21-2013, 12:27 PM
It's deeply illiberal, really bad.

Badrats Studio
03-21-2013, 12:31 PM
""The system is already there for Microsoft. All they'd have to do is use the DLC and codes model they have to tie a game to your Xbox live account," Durall continues. "Each retail disc would likely need that unique key somewhere in the code so the account would be able to link it properly. Ideally it would tie a full version to the console it is registered on so family members can play even if the main account isn't signed in.""

Welp. When Xbox Live (or account) is disappear / lost / stop functioning, there goes the game. Unplayable but it's there.

Who has this idea ? He/she must be really drunk while thinking of this blunder.

Reality
03-21-2013, 01:28 PM
A horrible move on their part. But will probably work on the majority of Xbox Live users. Gitta get that day one DLC!

BlindMaphisto
03-21-2013, 01:40 PM
I think Microsoft leaks shit like this themselves for free market research. See how much of a fit the internet throws to gauge whether they think they can get away with it or not.

Personally I am so happy with my current pc that it's not going to be a problem at all to skip the next console cycle. In fact that would translate into lots of money saved for pc games.

Nem
03-21-2013, 01:50 PM
*grabs popcorn*

A Sony/Nintendo two-way market pleases me. Keep going Microsoft.

Escaflowne2001
03-21-2013, 02:42 PM
Nintendo who? at this rate they'll turn into a handheld only company.

Anyway doesn't really bother me that much as I get 90% of my games new. Not being able to resell would be annoying but not a deal breaker.

Ernst
03-21-2013, 02:46 PM
Nintendo who? at this rate they'll turn into a handheld only company.

Anyway doesn't really bother me that much as I get 90% of my games new. Not being able to resell would be annoying but not a deal breaker.

You should think about it more broadly. It's not about buying used games (I don't, but actually, I would be annoyed that I could no longer rent games), it's about having ownership over the product you buy. The less ownership you have, the more of a mug you can be taken for down the line. It's important to halt these types of initiatives, because it's incremental.

Escaflowne2001
03-21-2013, 02:59 PM
Yeah but since everything will be digital after this next generation your fighting a impossible fight against the tide. Besides this is only a rumor at the moment, there were the same rumors going around about the PS4 before it was announced.

Sulblazer
03-22-2013, 02:45 AM
No...Escaflowne. You're asking us to have a measured, objective response to unconfirmed rumors? Psshhh!!!! That's too much! What's gonna keep the blades on the rumor mill churning if not the hot air from the bellows of panic button pushers?

Drunken Savior
03-22-2013, 03:09 AM
A HDD that holds a "large number of games"? I'm skeptical. Reliable HDDs aren't cheap. A 1TB HDD could hold 66 15GB games.

Escaflowne2001
03-22-2013, 03:59 AM
Well looking it up most of the internal HDD are between £50-60 range (Seagate, Samsung, Western Digital, Toshiba) that's pretty cheap to buy. Of course MS could get them at a much cheapier rate if they wanted to have a big hard drive.

Drunken Savior
03-22-2013, 04:12 AM
Pretty cheap I suppose, but it's still a very large cost in the overall design that wasn't a factor in the last generation, where HDDs weren't really meant to hold a catalog of games.

I didn't mean 'cheap' as in HDDs are expensive or anything, but developers are already trying their hardest to cut the costs of their consoles down to make the price appealing to consumers and adding a large HDD to the hardware certainly raises the cost of the console by a significant margin. Poor choice of words on my part.

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 09:13 AM
Welp. When Xbox Live (or account) is disappear / lost / stop functioning, there goes the game. Unplayable but it's there.

Basically you'll be left with a useless box. But that's ok because they'll offer the same software digitally on their next console for an additional price, so that people make the same mistake twice.

BTW, seeing as these games are downloaded once from the disc and then become useless plastic, what happens when your console/HD breaks?

Yeah but since everything will be digital after this next generation your fighting a impossible fight against the tide. Besides this is only a rumor at the moment, there were the same rumors going around about the PS4 before it was announced.

If everything goes digital in the next-gen, this industry will crash and burn. If MS intentionally spread this rumor in order to observe public response, that was a rather dumb move. Even if they don't follow through with any of it, they've still written their heart on their sleeve, so to speak.

Drunken Savior
03-22-2013, 09:42 AM
BTW, seeing as these games are downloaded once from the disc and then become useless plastic, what happens when your console/HD breaks?

Hopefully any purchases are tied to your account and not to your physical device. Unless something has changed, purchases made for the WiiU are tied to the console, meaning selling your console or having it malfunction on you is a real concern.

If you can't re-download the games you tie to an account, then be pissed off.

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 10:21 AM
That's considering all of this rings true. IGN covered the story, so who knows? However, they did quote developers who basically said that the industry needs to adopt these ideas in order to survive. Whatever. Maybe if they didn't spend upwards of $50-100 million per game they'd find it much easier to survive.

Escaflowne2001
03-22-2013, 11:26 AM
If everything goes digital in the next-gen, this industry will crash and burn. If MS intentionally spread this rumor in order to observe public response, that was a rather dumb move. Even if they don't follow through with any of it, they've still written their heart on their sleeve, so to speak.

Really I don't see why it's already becoming more popular. There already testing it with handhelds there are quite a few games that are already download only of course these are only about 2-3gbs at the moment.

Sony have already said that every PS4 game will be ready to download upon release when the time comes. I guess they'll decide how to procede based on the number of downloads. More and more games are coming up for download though. I can only see it increasing in the future.

Ernst
03-22-2013, 11:44 AM
No...Escaflowne. You're asking us to have a measured, objective response to unconfirmed rumors? Psshhh!!!! That's too much! What's gonna keep the blades on the rumor mill churning if not the hot air from the bellows of panic button pushers?

That's quite the straw man you've erected there. We all understand this is a rumour (although confirmed by two separate sources) - we all understand this is speculation.

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 12:11 PM
Really I don't see why it's already becoming more popular. There already testing it with handhelds there are quite a few games that are already download only of course these are only about 2-3gbs at the moment.

Sony have already said that every PS4 game will be ready to download upon release when the time comes. I guess they'll decide how to procede based on the number of downloads. More and more games are coming up for download though. I can only see it increasing in the future.

No doubt that it's increasing but console gaming is treated much different, for various reasons.

For example, despite digital sales of movies and such, people in general still prefer owning the physical product that is a DVD or Blu-ray. Likewise, console gamers enjoy having a tangible library of software, accessible at anytime. With digital, there is a much greater risk of getting burned and there's a sense of detachment, a feeling that you don't actually own the product, merely a temporary license of use. In fact, some online stores have remotely erased stuff that people had bought in digital form. For example, a woman bought a movie digitally from Amazon, only to find her access had been cut off by the movie studio.

By going digital, you are essentially sacrificing ownership to a third-party who may arbitrarily decide at some point in the future to cut off access. What happens when you've got something, let's say a game console, which relies solely on digital distribution? It gets replaced down the road and the old servers are eventually shut down. The former console becomes a worthless scrap of metal and all the stuff you paid for ...gone, just like that.

Nothing beats owning a physical product -- nothing.

Kiuju2k
03-22-2013, 02:16 PM
According to some developers, these features are considered wonderful, because they want to destroy the second-hand market.

Sources?

Whatever he said in this thread

This.

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 03:07 PM
Too lazy to bother clicking on the provided links and reading them?

"Personally I think this would be a fantastic change for our business. Even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first, they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

...

Durall concludes by commenting that used game sales hurt the industry more than most people realize, and that "we have to do something about these issues or our industry is going to fall apart."

Joe Redifer
03-22-2013, 05:15 PM
I don' care too much about used games. I would like to see Game Stop go away, but I don't want to see the smaller, local stores go away. Mandatory install is no big deal, just as long as if I buy another Xbox 720 or whatever it's called I can still play the game on that.

But the devs seem to be surviving just find and dandy now with used games in existence, so it seems to be a move based on greed to me.

progmetal
03-22-2013, 05:17 PM
What is this? Posting a year old articles now Icarus?

Anyway, more recently Edge has repeated this, twice. They seem pretty certain about it.

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform. A new iteration of Xbox Live will be an integral part of Microsoft’s next console, while improved Kinect hardware will also ship alongside the unit.


http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 05:19 PM
That was one of the issues brought up. The idea is that once you install the game on your HD, it links that copy to your system forever and the disc wouldn't work on any other console. So, for instance, if you wanted to let Dave borrow your copy of Phantasy Star V for Xbox 720 (LOL), it wouldn't work on his console since it's magically bound to yours.

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 05:22 PM
Sorry prog. That was previously reported, true, but Microsoft has yet to deny any of it.

Joe Redifer
03-22-2013, 05:25 PM
First of all LOLOL Phantasy Star V actually existing and LOLOL at Dave wanting to borrow or even play it. But if the console breaks or when they come out with the XBox 720 Slim there will need to be a way to play existing games.

progmetal
03-22-2013, 05:32 PM
It was old but I was just kidding Icarus.

It's true that they never have denied it, and now more and more is pointing towards it beeing true.

Latest from VGLeaks:

- Always on, Always connected
- Low powered mode
- Kinect sold with every console, wider FOV, no motors, better tracking
- Kinect is required to be plugged in
- Low latency controller with "improved ergonomics", simplified interaction with console OS
- Bluray drive
- All games must be installed on HDD [you can start playing few secs after installation starts], game data streaming from optical disc not supported
- Only digital audio out

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 05:35 PM
Well it was rumored to be in development for the Saturn but never happened. Our loss. I highly doubt that Sega could do the series justice.

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 05:38 PM
It was old but I was just kidding Icarus.

It's true that they never have denied it, and now more and more is pointing towards it beeing true.

Latest from VGLeaks:

- Always on, Always connected
- Low powered mode
- Kinect sold with every console, wider FOV, no motors, better tracking
- Kinect is required to be plugged in
- Low latency controller with "improved ergonomics", simplified interaction with console OS
- Bluray drive
- All games must be installed on HDD [you can start playing few secs after installation starts], game data streaming from optical disc not supported
- Only digital audio out

I heard from my brother about the Kinect being required. (Are they planning on reading your body signature to ensure that only you are allowed to play or something?) Spooky. I'd go so far as to call it Orwellian.

Nem
03-22-2013, 05:48 PM
I'm so not gonna buy this new Xbox! Many times over! Kinect required?! OLOLOL

What happens when your ISP is doing maintenance or your internet is down. No games for you! OLOLOL

Escaflowne2001
03-22-2013, 07:26 PM
What happens when your ISP is doing maintenance or your internet is down. No games for you! OLOLOL

How often does that happen though, I'm not sure what it's like in Portugal but here where I live I can only remember like twice since I've been with Plusnet that it's been down.

Paper exe
03-22-2013, 07:56 PM
xbox hardly get any exclusive games anyway. they can lock it all they want I'll just get my fix in PS4 like what I did this gen with PS3.

stroopwafel
03-22-2013, 08:17 PM
Not being able to play my game b/c of ISP issues or server overload is ridiculous, so an 'always on' internet connection is a definite no-go for me. Not that I was planning to get the next-gen xbox but this(if true) really kills any hesitation I might have had. I'll just stick to PS4 :p

Joe Redifer
03-22-2013, 08:59 PM
If always online and needing Kinect come to fruition, I definitely won't buy it. Nobody cares about Kinect. NOBODY. There is not a single person on the planet who likes Kinect. Not sure why they keep trying to force it down our throats. Always online is also unnecessary and quite annoying. It's not like Comcast or any other ISP for that matter have rock-solid reliability. I'll take a wait and see attitude before I make my final decision.

Sulblazer
03-22-2013, 09:15 PM
That's quite the straw man you've erected there. We all understand this is a rumour (although confirmed by two separate sources) - we all understand this is speculation.

Oh, I dunno...based on some the overreactions, doesn't seem that everyone understand or agree on what constitutes as hearsay. I would think the more measured reaction would have been, "Oh, that's interesting. I wonder what the long term ramifications would be if any of these speculations are true?". But naaaah! That's no fun! Admittedly, the reasonable responses are often long-winded and boring...I'd much rather read the short, excitable, doomsday predictions. Oh hell, I'll jump on the bandwagon even...Microsoft is gonna burn for this!!!!!!

Icarus4578
03-22-2013, 09:40 PM
I've read a good deal of gamers' responses on this issue and the overwhelming majority concur: If this speculation holds true, they're going to abandon ship. Period.

*edit*

“So they’ve gone halfway. With the next Xbox, you supposedly have to have an internet connection, and the discs are watermarked, whereby once played on one console it won’t play on another. So I think the generation after that will be digital-only.”

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1825118/xbox_720_to_block_used_games_eidos_head.html

Quite the speculation for the president of Eidos to make such a comment.

Pikachief
03-22-2013, 11:37 PM
If always online and needing Kinect come to fruition, I definitely won't buy it. Nobody cares about Kinect. NOBODY. There is not a single person on the planet who likes Kinect. Not sure why they keep trying to force it down our throats. Always online is also unnecessary and quite annoying. It's not like Comcast or any other ISP for that matter have rock-solid reliability. I'll take a wait and see attitude before I make my final decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12697975

It's probably because they think everyone thinks Kinect is the greatest thing that's ever been able to be put in someone's living room.

Sulblazer
03-23-2013, 03:03 AM
I've read a good deal of gamers' responses on this issue and the overwhelming majority concur: If this speculation holds true, they're going to abandon ship. Period.

I'm sure you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of the knee jerk exclamations. I've often found that what people say, while emotionally engaged, is seldom congruent to what they do. Yeah...sure they say they'll abandon ship now...but it might be a completely different story when the product actually comes out. I'll just sit back and wait to see how this all unfolds before I jump in with any conclusions...if any ever at all.

stroopwafel
03-23-2013, 03:59 AM
Well speaking for myself I skipped on every generation of xboxes b/c I absolutely loathe micro$oft. They have a long, long history of fucking consumers over with their shit products.

Just recently I bought a new laptop with winbloze pre-installed and what did I immediately find out? That I had to pay an extra 100 euros just to unlock a fucking shitty wordprocessor and spreadsheet program that m$ monopolized! Then when I'm working on my laptop suddenly the system(without warning) reboots to install like 80 patches. All unsaved data gone.

And these are just lissues of like the first 15 minutes with a m$ product.

Fuck that company. B/c they monopolized large chunks of the software market there is often no way around them but if I have the choice(like with entertainment) I definitely avoid them like the plague. That 'always on' internet scheme of theirs really puts the final nail in the coffin for me.

calintz
03-23-2013, 05:17 AM
why are you using windows then?

Escaflowne2001
03-23-2013, 05:57 AM
Then when I'm working on my laptop suddenly the system(without warning) reboots to install like 80 patches. All unsaved data gone.


Sounds like you need to turn off automatic updates. When you first boot up your laptop it most likely said on the screen that multiple restarts will be needed to finish updating.

Nem
03-23-2013, 06:09 AM
How often does that happen though, I'm not sure what it's like in Portugal but here where I live I can only remember like twice since I've been with Plusnet that it's been down.

Internet in Portugal is actually really good, but i live in the Netherlands at the moment. The internet has moods over here and pirate bay is blocked lolz... but not the mirrors. I hear pretty bad things about UK internet from the guys i know though.