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Drunken Savior
06-18-2007, 09:30 PM
SiCKO is due to be released on June 29, 2007 and it a documentary looking at Ameircan Health Care in relationship to Canada, Cuba, London, and France's Health Care. It's been leaked online (like Fahrenheit 9/11 was) and Michael Moore has said he doesn't care if people pirate the film (like Fahrenheit 9/11).

I've seen the film, it's available online for free on Google video. I must say it's a very good film and it would be nice if America did change its outlook to Universal Health care. But we'll see, there are lots of hurdles to jump to do so, the largest being our own government.

The film has gotten a lot of praise, including Fox News which says "Filmmaker Michael Moore's brilliant and uplifting new documentary, "Sicko," deals with the failings of the U.S. health care system, both real and perceived. But this time around, the controversial documentarian seems to be letting the subject matter do the talking, and in the process shows a new maturity." High praise indeed.

Go see it. Or if you are too poor, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do to help you see it.

[EDIT] Sorry, when I refreshed my browser, the video seemed to have been taken offline sometime this morning.

Yoshi Girl
06-18-2007, 09:52 PM
it's been through a few links on google, and keeps disappearing. I know of 3 that have been up then down, so just keep searching if you want it.

Vote yes for social medicine!!

Zod
06-18-2007, 10:26 PM
I only wish that the American poor would get the sort of treatment illegals from other countries get.

Drunken Savior
06-18-2007, 10:39 PM
LOL Zod, you should see the film. Americans do to Canada's healthcare just like Mexicans do to our workplace. :P

welshfreak
06-19-2007, 05:29 AM
Universal healthcare like the NHS in the UK, simply does not work. In fact, we're getting rid of it as we speak.

Nindalf
06-19-2007, 05:35 AM
Universal healthcare like the NHS in the UK, simply does not work. In fact, we're getting rid of it as we speak.

that's because you guys suck lol

welshfreak
06-19-2007, 05:39 AM
Mainly that, but the European model of healthcare is admired by many Americans and used in the argument for getting universal healthcare. (Which won't happen anyway, America is simply too big to afford such a scheme), thing is, universal healthcare is indeed, pretty universal, but that comes at a big price, in more ways than one.

Nindalf
06-19-2007, 05:47 AM
so does invading random muslim countries. americans love to bleed money.

Drunken Savior
06-19-2007, 05:52 AM
So...go into details!!!!

welshfreak
06-19-2007, 05:56 AM
Do you see their being a big change to American healthcare DS? Or is this just some electoral hot potato (what isn't?) that the partisans are throwing about until 2008, then everyone can go back to making money?

Drunken Savior
06-19-2007, 05:58 AM
I'm not psychic! If you told me that Bush would have as much power as he does now before 9/11, I'd probably laugh. I'm just curious to know what's not being told to me. And you live there. Ergo, first hand accounts. I'd rather listen to first hand accounts.

welshfreak
06-19-2007, 06:09 AM
OK I've had NHS treatment all my life. And I've survived 6 operations, had dental and orthodontic care, GP check ups, and a few weeks ago, Wales passed a law for free prescriptions (although I'm living in England currently). The standard of care has been good, and I've not died, but compared to the private sector it's very underwhelming. A structure of national healthcare protects most of the population but to be honest, it's crumbling at the moment, it's in meltdown (no exaggeration) and now tax payers money is being reinvested in paying private companies to do the state sector's job which I think is a wonderful idea, as you get the competition from the private companies fighting for government contracts (i.e.. saves money for the tax payer) and at the same time, the tax payer gets the higher quality treatment associated with the private sector for lower rates than if they paid directly into the NHS state provided healthcare system. It's the way forward for Britain at least.

Nindalf
06-19-2007, 06:12 AM
And I've survived 6 operations

one was a failed brain surgery, i assume.

Drunken Savior
06-19-2007, 06:14 AM
Ok, I know the argument for both sides, so no need to rehash it.

I was concerned about your first hand experiences that you have either experienced or have heard of from people you know.

Honestly, I'm not really debating right now. So I don't see why you are getting hostile. I'm purely curious to hear the side from someone that's NOT an American.

welshfreak
06-19-2007, 06:31 AM
Ok, I know the argument for both sides, so no need to rehash it.

I was concerned about your first hand experiences that you have either experienced or have heard of from people you know.

Honestly, I'm not really debating right now. So I don't see why you are getting hostile. I'm purely curious to hear the side from someone that's NOT an American.

I'm being hostile? That really wasn't my intention at all? (Totally didn't mean to come across that way, I'm simply very animated this morning). And that can't be a rehash of the argument, it can't, it's a change Britain is only beginning to get in the motions with, and I mentioned it only because my Dad is directly involved with these changes.
The most positive experience of national healthcare I have seen was that my Mum gave birth last year and the baby was fine, the service was exemplary, from the Doctors to the Midwives, to the cleanliness of the ward.
The most negative I guess would be my step grandfather who waited 3 and a half years for an operation on his prostate (cancer) but it simply didn't come, (waiting lists are too long) so he snuffed it. Although I admit, the palliative care offered on the NHS was good for him, but I can't help thinking if they actually operated on him in the first place, they wouldn't have needed to have had such fine palliative services.
Also the hospital where I was born suffered a crisis a few months ago where patients had to wait 2-4 hours in ambulances outside the hospital to actually get admitted, which was quiet the scandal, as you can imagine. That was a big news story as I remember.

darren
06-19-2007, 06:49 AM
the french health service is the best i'v ever seen ... everything is free (even fucking plastic surgery) my folks live there and they say the free health care is better than the over priced private health they had when they live in the UK and US.

they class it as a right for everyone .. and the government give it to them .. just a shame u have to live in france to get great health care like that .. lol .. there are downsides to everything

...

but back to the film .. i'm well loocking forward to this (DS - perhaps you can hook me up as theres no release date for the UK) Micheal Moore is not only FAT he's PHAT

welshfreak
06-19-2007, 06:55 AM
I'll be wanting to see this film too.

Darren, is it in my imagination (which I bet it is) or have the number of BUPA adverts (and other private healthcare) on TV, radio etc, just sky-rocketed in the last few years?
I mean like these ones for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5wa2CVcdac

Nindalf
06-19-2007, 07:03 AM
i want to know what those 6 operations were.

Drunken Savior
06-19-2007, 07:15 AM
Welsh and Darren, check your PMs!

darren
06-19-2007, 07:59 AM
I'll be wanting to see this film too.

Darren, is it in my imagination (which I bet it is) or have the number of BUPA adverts (and other private healthcare) on TV, radio etc, just sky-rocketed in the last few years?
I mean like these ones for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5wa2CVcdac

true .. they have .. and its crap .. UK private health is not to great any more .. i used to pay for it via work but stopped after i needed to use it. waiting lists as long as NHS and service was crappy ...

now since my folks live in france if/when me the wife or kids are sick or need to see someone we fly over there and get the best hospital/doctors/ dentist/ optians for free .. :D ... no waiting lists and the best treatment i ever had ..

Welsh and Darren, check your PMs!

cheers dude

i want to know what those 6 operations were.

sex changes take more than one op

onyl 2 more to go untill no one could tell.

http://www.uberpages.com/tutorials/photoshop_tutorials/beard_brush/beard_brush_06.jpg

progmetal
06-19-2007, 08:07 AM
the french health service is the best i'v ever seen ... everything is free (even fucking plastic surgery) my folks live there and they say the free health care is better than the over priced private health they had when they live in the UK and US.

Health care is free here too, and even plastic surgery, if it's health related. There are waiting lines, but they've gotten shorter by the years. You don't have to wait for operations at all in France? Same day treatment?

darren
06-19-2007, 08:14 AM
vanity stuff like tummy tucks etc are free in france. My mum had on a year or so ago .. lol .. she didn't need it be honest .. she went to the docs about something and they were talking .. she said she was not happy about her stomach (which never really snapped back after me and m bro popped out) and 5 days later she was under the knife ... lol ..

as for waiting lists not far off ..

go to doctors .. then go to see consultant a day or so later .. op a few days after that, some times say day as seeing consultant .. is crazy .. and the way it should be

you do not even have to go to the doctors like you do in the uk for all things .. chemists are not far off qualifed doctors so they can diagnoise illness's and dispence/perscribe drugs on the spot without u having to go to the doctors.

the thing with the french system is that the government have MASSIVE debts and its all due to the health systems .. they provide possibly one the the best systems in the world and its 100% free ..

the run themselves in to more and more debt over paying for this amazing system as the fench people will never pay for it and to suggest they do would probebly cause a 2nd revolution.

Drunken Savior
06-19-2007, 11:02 AM
Hey, so how long would it take to get antibiotics if you KNOW you have something, like sinusitis, but you just need a doctor to sign off on a Rx? How much would it cost?

darren
06-19-2007, 11:14 AM
drugs are free i think ... you would get a chemist to sign it off and you would not have to go to a doctor if u needed a repeat perscription .. not 100% tho .. but i can find out .. wi,ll ask folks next time i call them

Joe Redifer
06-19-2007, 02:00 PM
I want a PM!

Also Welshfreak, if you don't stop being so overwhelmingly hostile, we'll have to ban you. Wow!

Daniel4802
06-19-2007, 06:54 PM
The real debate ought to be how much government involvement/limitation there should be affecting both private and state care and the ratio of existance between the two. Another thing to make note of, is one plan that works in one part of the world might not excel elsewhere due to different risks people take that could peak healthcare costs and taxes - rampant obesity in America compared to other countries is a prime example.

I have friends who live in Ontario. One was on a 2 yr waiting list for orthropedic surgery. Eventually he came to the States and had it done in 1 week. Of course, the bill was a good amount but overall he was happy with the results. I need to ask him the amount, but he did state it was cheaper than what he pays tax-wise for NHS annually.

More private facilities are starting to appear, however. If I remember correctly, at one time only governmental insurance was allowed. The use of MRI machines by paying patients was even prohibited. The Supreme Court ruled in that instance it violated constitutional guarantees of "security of person."

In terms of Moore's "Sicko" I'm interested in seeing if he shows the regional hospitals the average Cubans paying with Moneida National Pesos frequent, not just foreigners with hard currency who go to the international hospitals.

Keits
06-21-2007, 12:57 PM
This movie was terrifying.

The best horror film I've ever seen.