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Black Sugar
10-21-2002, 08:55 PM
While consumers rejoiced at the news earlier this week regarding Microsoft's plans to bundle the Xbox console with two Sega games, Japanese investors have been far less enthusiastic. More aptly, shares of the company have fallen in recent days following the announcement. In fact, a Deutsche Securities analyst described the software bundle plan as a 'troubling pattern' for both companies, suggesting both Sega and Microsoft were having problems selling their products separately. In a similar move, Nikko Solomon Smith Barney has cut its price target on Sega shares from 3,100 to 2,100 yen.

source | Xengamers (http://www.xengamers.com)

Black Ace
10-21-2002, 09:57 PM
I didn't know Sega shares were so low, thought they were in Nintendo range, which is around 15,000y - 22,000y.

baratus
10-21-2002, 10:34 PM
How the mighty have fallen. :haha:

gabriel
10-22-2002, 08:32 AM
Considering what happened to the Dreamcast (and Saturn, and 32X, and Sega CD), it's not surprising that their shares are so low.

DBJAY
10-22-2002, 12:14 PM
Sega's on the road to recovery. I don't think anybody can realistically expect them to have an instant reversal of fortunes. They still need to focus their software on profitable genres. I think part of their current problem is that their games have been too niche (especially on Xbox......JSRF, Sega GT, Gunvalkyrie to name a few) that don't have mass market appeal. If they really want to challenge EA for marketshare, it would be better if they focused on delivering exceptional games within the stable of franchises they have built over the years.

For example, EA creates exceptionally marginal platformer games, like Ty The Tasmanian Tiger. Sega has the number two franchise in the world in this genre with Sonic. They need to get Sonic on all three platforms. EA does not make great fighting games. Sega does, and need to have Virtua Fighter Evo on all three platforms. EA does not make great arcade racers, Sega has the Daytona and Rally series.

Why they choose to directly challenge EA on their strengths, especially Madden, seems like poor strategy and misdirected financial resources.

There is a bit of turn around though, with Virtua Cop 3, Sega Rally, Daytona, Panzer, Toe Jam, Sonic 3 all receiving sequels, so there is hope for 2003.

crazytaxinext
10-22-2002, 12:28 PM
You mean they were on the turn around;)

This is where they're at a year on from the new systems releases. It's seriously looking like its time for Sega to ditch the Xbox focus and actually attempt to make some cash.

DBJAY
10-22-2002, 01:46 PM
They shouldn't ditch the box. They bombed on the GC with Beach Spikers, and Gungrave tanked on the PS2. The original JSR didn't sell well on the DC either. It all starts with the games, it really is pretty much irrelevant which platform they release games on if the game is too niche, or sub par quality, they will not get the mass market sales they are chasing.

xsarien
10-22-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by DBJAY
They shouldn't ditch the box. They bombed on the GC with Beach Spikers, and Gungrave tanked on the PS2. The original JSR didn't sell well on the DC either. It all starts with the games, it really is pretty much irrelevant which platform they release games on if the game is too niche, or sub par quality, they will not get the mass market sales they are chasing.

I don't think he meant ditch it outright, but I think that bringing the era of high-profile (and some would argue disproportionate) XBox exclusives to an end is a good idea. When Sega initially went 3rd party, everyone pretty much thought it was a good idea from a finanical standpoint. Duh. But I also think it's a safe assumption that Sega's strategy of games exclusive to each console (save their sports titles) is going to backfire on them, and the Japanese stock market's reaction may be an indication of that.

Not to make this any more of an armchair analysis than it already is, but games like Toejam and Earl and JSRF are pretty good examples of content that's prime for mutli-console support. The XBox doesn't have the installed base to really let those two shine, nor despite their quality, are they "system sellers".

(Ed: I'm not even going to guess at the level of politicking that surrounded Microsoft securing the NA rights to Shenmue II. (I just hope that Sega can worm their way out of it, or else I'll just have to get the import.))

Havoc2049
10-22-2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by xsarien

Not to make this any more of an armchair analysis than it already is, but games like Toejam and Earl and JSRF are pretty good examples of content that's prime for mutli-console support. The XBox doesn't have the installed base to really let those two shine, nor despite their quality, are they "system sellers".

(Ed: I'm not even going to guess at the level of politicking that surrounded Microsoft securing the NA rights to Shenmue II. (I just hope that Sega can worm their way out of it, or else I'll just have to get the import.))

Sega does make some great games that deserve to sell better, but I guess just hardcore gamers know that, thus the low sales of games such as GV, JSRF and Gungrave. Sega should go multi-platform with games such as Sonic and the VF series.

As for Sega ditching the Xbox, lol. Most multi-platform Sega games have sold better on the Xbox, than it has on the GC.
What Sega game has sold well recently on the GC? Monkey Ball 2 isn't selling well at all on the GC.

As for the current Sega games about to be released on the Xbox. I have heard Shenmue II has some strong pre-order sales and a large amount of Xbox owners in forums are looking forward to the game. House of Dead 3, this falls into the GV, JSRF and Gungrave catagory, probably won't sell that well, but praised by hardcore gamers. Toe Jam and Earl III has to potential to appeal to more than the hardcore gamer, Christmas is a good to to release TJ&EIII, in order to maximize sales. Panzer Dragoon Orta might be a great game and sell really well and might even move some Xbox's in Japan.

xsarien
10-22-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by AtariX


Sega does make some great games that deserve to sell better, but I guess just hardcore gamers know that, thus the low sales of games such as GV, JSRF and Gungrave. Sega should go multi-platform with games such as Sonic and the VF series.

As for Sega ditching the Xbox, lol. Most multi-platform Sega games have sold better on the Xbox, than it has on the GC.

What Sega game has sold well recently on the GC? Monkey Ball 2 isn't selling well at all on the GC.



You know, I don't even *want* to get into what defines a "hardcore" gamer and a "casual" gamer. The line between the two is so fuzzy it makes a furry convention look like a textbook case for the Hair Club for Men.

Anyway, take a look at this chart:

http://cube.ign.com/articles/373/373041p1.html

Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is [projected to be] Sega's top-selling game of the year, and the precious few Sega games that are mutli-console aren't doing too hot (e.g. Soccer Slam), *especially* on the XBox (with an exception or two.). And, just to emphasize the point: relatively speaking, Monkey Ball 1 seems to be selling better than Sega's XBox offerings.


Panzer Dragoon Orta might be a great game and sell really well and might even move some Xbox's in Japan.

You know, I don't think a cargo ship filled with Metamucil could move XBoxes in Japan. :) But honestly, PDO is another game in a series that very few people know about, and despite how good the game is probably going to be, it's probably going to be the XBox's Rez. (Hey, they both have similar gameplay, right?)

(Edit: A technical concession)

Black Sugar
10-22-2002, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by DBJAY
They shouldn't ditch the box. They bombed on the GC with Beach Spikers, and Gungrave tanked on the PS2. The original JSR didn't sell well on the DC either. It all starts with the games, it really is pretty much irrelevant which platform they release games on if the game is too niche, or sub par quality, they will not get the mass market sales they are chasing.

Beach Spikers and Gungrave didn't do well simply because they we're bad games.

JSRF and Gunvalkyrie didn't sell much because Smilebit didn't choice the right console for these type of games JSRF and Gunvalkyrie would appeal more to the PS2 audience.

It like making a Monkey Ball game on Xbox...do you trufully believe that it will sell well on Xbox ?

DBJAY
10-22-2002, 09:01 PM
Beach Spikers is not a bad game. It simply is too different.

I don't think the PS2 audience is much different than the Xbox, given Madden is outselling NFL2k3 on both platforms. If GV had better control/more accessible to players/with a better camera, then imo it would have fared better. JSR was not popular on the DC despite the game's quality, so it is no surprise that it did not sell well.

I believe that great games have a better chance of selling well on any console. Monkeyball probably would do very good on Xbox and on PS2, as would Sonic, etc.

Monkey-King
10-22-2002, 09:02 PM
Honestly, the up coming banking problems in Japane are more likely to cause even worse problesms for evereyone else. The support XBox might give Sega could boost them up in the long run. For those of you would don't read the newspapers, Japan banks are suffering under the weight of billion of dollars of bad loans that are under performing. While people in the banking industry are optimistic it could only take one major down turn to bring them down hard. And, since Japanese banks play a greater role in the allocation of domestic credit than do their American counterparts--or banks in most other industrialized countries--their financial well-being has a strong influenced on their ecomomy and peoples well being. Basicly, when the **** hits the fan it is harder to duck!

Havoc2049
10-23-2002, 06:07 AM
I don't even know why Sega released Soccer Slam on the Xbox. Xbox owners had about this much interest in the game II(hold your thumb and index finger up to the two lines). Did Sega even market Soccer Slam for the Xbox? How about you compare the NFL and NBA games. Will this be the last year of Sega Sports on GC?

As for comparing Rez to PDO.....I bet Sega sells more PDO's in the first day, than Rez has sold all together. Rez is more comparable to Tempest in gameplay anyways.

DBJAY
10-23-2002, 12:16 PM
Sega feels that GC has a younger userbase, so Sonic Team decided that Sonic and Super Monkeyball would be a better fit for the GC crowd, and they were right. However, I also think that Monkeyball did well because it was one of the very few original launch titles, and Sonic was the first truly well done action platfomer for the system despite it being an enhanced port of the DC version.

Why they have chosen not to release Sonic or Monkeyball on the PS2 and Xbox seems like a bad business move (more potential customers = more potential sales), unless Nintendo paid for exclusive rights to Sega for those two titles.

Also, I think there is an overalp in the PS2 and Xbox fan base. The PS2 was promoted as the most graphically advanced console with amazing hardware features. Xbox currently is using the same marketing tactics. So people who want the most powerful console will naturally move on the latest and greatest tech, whether it be from Sony or MS.

Rez is an example of art before commerce for Sega. They obviously know that such a game will not be a smash hit, but they developed and published it anyway, and you have to respect their risk taking.

I still think Sega should bundle their lower sales software, like Soccer Slam, with other games and release software bundle packs.

xsarien
10-23-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by AtariX
I don't even know why Sega released Soccer Slam on the Xbox. Xbox owners had about this much interest in the game II(hold your thumb and index finger up to the two lines). Did Sega even market Soccer Slam for the Xbox? How about you compare the NFL and NBA games. Will this be the last year of Sega Sports on GC?

Why was Soccer Slam brought over to the XBox? That's a pretty good question. I bet the answer, however, is the same to "Why was 'Crazy Taxi' ported to the PC?"

For some reason, Sega Sports titles on the GameCube were released later than their PS2 and XBox counterparts. It wasn't by anything huge, maybe a week at the most. Could that have skewed the sales to other consoles? Possibly: I doubt the games look any better on the XBox or GameCube as they do on the PS2, so people just picked up what was available. I'm not saying that a consistent release date for all three consoles would've changed anything, but the chances of better numbers on the GCN would've been higher.

I also don't think that this will be the last we'll see of Sega Sports on the GameCube. At least, I hope. :)


As for comparing Rez to PDO.....I bet Sega sells more PDO's in the first day, than Rez has sold all together. Rez is more comparable to Tempest in gameplay anyways.

PDO has, well, advertising behind it. Rez kinda just snuck in under the radar and had to be discovered. As far as gameplay goes, they really are closely related. Both are rail-shooters, so your duties are pretty limited to aiming, Rez also shares (at the very least) the "lock-on" feature from previous PD games.

DBJAY
10-23-2002, 06:00 PM
There is a demo of PDO coming in the offical Xbox mag, definately looking forward to that.

Toe Jam and Earl ship this week. It will be interesting to see if the game can recapture some of the sales magic of the first title.

Cobi*
10-24-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by DBJAY

Rez is an example of art before commerce for Sega. They obviously know that such a game will not be a smash hit, but they developed and published it anyway, and you have to respect their risk taking.


i love rez, see? it's in my sig :2happy: i don't think this game was as big a risk as it seems. it was blessed with decent sales in japan and europe just not in north america and it probably didn't cost that much to develop (financially anyways ^^). even that other uga game space channel 5 part 2 is going to be a ps2 greatest hit title in japan and enjoys brisk sales in europe. it's only north america that hasn't seen the light. choo!

as for the rest of sega, i don't know. i don't know why sega isn't doing as good as it should be. maybe it has something to do with how they consistently manage to step on their fan's feet. i love the uga part of sega, no doubt, but i can't respect sega as a company overall. i have even been known to boycott them occasionally post-saturn and dreamcast.