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Black Ace
09-09-2002, 11:52 PM
Report: PS2 successor would be hardware-free by 2005

TOKYO, Japan (Reuters) -- While Sony Corp. basks in the success of its PlayStation 2 in the $30 billion-plus-a-year videogame market, expectations are rising that its successor will be out of the box by 2005, in an entirely different form.

Sony remains tight-lipped about the timing of the next generation's debut, but it is dropping some hints about the product's likely shape -- or more accurately, lack of shape.

"We're not thinking about hardware," said Kenichi Fukunaga, spokesman for Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE), the Sony subsidiary that develops and makes the PlayStation.

"The ideal solution would be having an operating system installed in various home appliances that could run game programs," he said.

Fuelling expectations of a 2005 target date is a microchip project among SCE, Toshiba Corp., Japan's largest chipmaker and co-producer of the PlayStation 2's complex microprocessor, and International Business Machines Corp.

The four-year project, code-named "cell" and due for completion in spring 2005, aims to create a powerful processor for home electronics with ultra-fast Internet connections that could, for example, transmit high-resolution moving pictures.

"It's possible PlayStation 3 would come out in 2005, since that's when Sony's cell project will yield something," said Kazuharu Miura, an analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research Ltd.

Broadband, box-free
He added that, by 2005, Japan's broadband infrastructure for high-speed Internet service would be largely complete and Sony would likely have a clearer idea of what kind of online games people want to play.

SCE said it had not decided how to integrate the cell processor into its next game console, but the general idea was to use the chip in Internet servers and home electronics to divide computing tasks among networked machines.

This would give the devices as much processing power as a supercomputer, such as IBM's "Deep Blue" machine that defeated Gary Kasparov at chess, and enable them to handle everything from games to video recording to downloading data from the Internet.

"We've started with boxes -- making boxes to do specific things, but if you have a chip this powerful you can add functions to any box. It's reverse thinking," said SCE's Fukunaga.

PlayStation 2, with more than 33 million machines sold since its launch in March 2000, has dwarfed sales of rival consoles released last year: Microsoft's Xbox and Nintendo's GameCube.

But the competition looks unlikely to let Sony have the next generation all to itself.

In July, the Wall Street Journal reported that Microsoft was considering launching a new game machine in 2003 or 2004 that would cost about $500 and be able to pause live TV and record programs onto a hard drive.

Sony earlier this week launched a home video recorder with just those functions, the first product in its Cocoon line of home electronics that will hook up to the Internet.



Your thoughts?

Alucard
09-10-2002, 12:17 AM
I'm sorry. Another PS3 topic? The system isn't out for another 3 years at least and we've already had about a dozen of these. Sony can go to hell with their stupid early marketting campaign. The way they talk about their 'revolutionary' new ideas coming in 2005 is like saying NO OTHER DEVICE MADE BY THAT TIME WILL HAVE THESE FEATURES ONLY PLAYSTAION 3! IT HAS WHOLE INTARNET INSIDE BOX! ASL!!

Misleading as usual. To pause live TV you need DIGITAL tv signals. This happens today already. To have ultra fast internet you need broadband connection available. This happens already. Its not like the PS3 somehow is making these things better or different by hooking it up to them. I want to play games on my console. Not make toast with it and tell it what times to take my dog for a walk. Screw you Sony. You make systems more expensive then they should be by adding crap people can use something else for when all they want to do is play games. God they irk me.

hgblob
09-10-2002, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Alucard
Screw you Sony. You make systems more expensive then they should be by adding crap people can use something else for when all they want to do is play games.

Then don't buy the thing when it comes out. Simple, no?

God they irk me.

Take a chill pill, Alucard. If you're so annoyed with any mention of Sony's plans for the PS3, then perhaps you should just not read the threads. It might spare you a few ulcers, at least.

Alucard
09-10-2002, 01:39 AM
I dont buy the console to support the maker. You may, but I dont. I buy it to play the gamesOTHER companies make. Therefore I am entitled to despise the maker of the console for making it more expensive for me to get the games.

And all i pointed out about the PS3 news is most of it is trash that can be done now but hyped up 3 years earlier to make it sound special. Perhaps you find this interesting and ground breaking. I say its there to impress sheep who dont know better, and to fill the boards with nonsense. There is nothing that I see in this news that hasn't already been repeated in previous posts. Its like posting a preview of the same game once a week. The news is always the same.

hgblob
09-10-2002, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Alucard
I dont buy the console to support the maker. You may, but I dont. I buy it to play the gamesOTHER companies make. Therefore I am entitled to despise the maker of the console for making it more expensive for me to get the games.


I don't buy consoles to support their makers either. Like you, I buy them because I want to play the games that interest me. However, perhaps unlike you, I don't see what's wrong with the makers trying to make their upcoming consoles better than what's around right now.

If Sony wants to throw around these grand plans, let them. If it works out, and it actually results in better hardware that allows the games makers to make better games, then good for them, and good for us! If it doesn't work out, then too bad for Sony.

I just find it kinda odd that you're spewing so much venom against Sony on a Sony related board, accusing them of making expensive consoles, when this accusation could possibly be levelled against the other console makers, as well. Then again, I don't usually visit the other boards, so maybe you do level this complaint against Nintendo, Microsoft, etc. and I just haven't read them yet :)

Alucard
09-10-2002, 02:23 AM
Well theres a point to making something useful and not. Take for example the Gamecube. You can get 2 versions. One with no DVD movie playback, and another more expensive for DVD movies. So the people who just want games to play and not movies save themselves a good $100. Thats pretty good. Sony dont do this. They toss everything they think will be useful into one unit and you have to pay extra for stuff you dont need. Thats all that really gets to me. I would have loved a PS2 without the DVDmovie playback. Would have been much more cheaper. But then again the system cost about $300US when it came out here in Australia. Another reason Sony get to me. Just overpriced.

Once again, its a good console. I'm glad I own it. But had I had the chance to buy a cut down version of it, I'd be there so much faster and happier. As it is now I have never used it to play movies with. I already have other players before it.

hgblob
09-10-2002, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by Alucard
Well theres a point to making something useful and not. Take for example the Gamecube. You can get 2 versions. One with no DVD movie playback, and another more expensive for DVD movies.

I've seen the Panasonic GC. Ugly looking thing :) Aesthetically speaking, I much prefer the look of the regular GCs.

Anyway...

So the people who just want games to play and not movies save themselves a good $100. Thats pretty good. Sony dont do this. They toss everything they think will be useful into one unit and you have to pay extra for stuff you dont need. Thats all that really gets to me. I would have loved a PS2 without the DVDmovie playback.

So you're one who subscribes to the opinion that the PS2 would have been cheaper had the DVD movie playback capability been left out? Personally, I think it's better to have the PS2 standardised. That way, everyone gets the same thing for the same price.

Would have been much more cheaper. But then again the system cost about $300US when it came out here in Australia. Another reason Sony get to me. Just overpriced.

Are you saying that paying US$299 (or it's equivalent in Australian Dollars) for just a gaming console is a better bargain than paying US$299 for a gaming console + DVD movie playback?

Think about it (using USDollars as our unit of currency in this discussion) : The PS2 was launched in the US for US$299. That's for a gaming console + DVD playback. I remember that it cost Sony about US$575 for every PS2 unit they rolled out -- again, that's for console + DVD movie playback. (I can't remember the exact cost, but for argument's sake, let's just say it's US$575.)

I also remember around that time the debates going on about the price of adding DVD playback. It was pretty much agreed from articles online that it cost Sony about US$20 - US$30 to add that. Since the console was designed from the start to play games that are on DVD, so hardware wise, everything was already set; the extra US$30 would be for software/licensing fees or whatever. Thus, had they excluded DVD movie playback, it would have cost Sony about US$545 per PS2 unit.

Would that have meant that Sony would launch the PS2 for US$269? No, since Sony would still be selling it for a loss. With or without DVD movie playback, it would still have launched with a US$299 price tag.

So, in the end, we paid the same amount of money to get more stuff.

Once again, its a good console. I'm glad I own it. But had I had the chance to buy a cut down version of it, I'd be there so much faster and happier. As it is now I have never used it to play movies with. I already have other players before it.

That's the thing: You don't have to use it to play movies to get your money's worth because the option of DVD movie playback on the PS2 was, as far as our money was concerned, FREE.

Alucard
09-10-2002, 07:21 AM
Thats something I dont fully understand. How it can cost only $30 or so to add DVD playback. I know the system was released a while back, but how is it that its as expensive as an XBox, which is more powerful, and the Gamecube is much cheaper? The Panasonic GC though that can play DVD movies costs a little more then a PS2.

I'm no tech wiz or anything, but would there have been added costs to set the hardware up into the system for it to be able to play movies? Stuff we dont know about that have to be added in. If you look at the costs you see Nintendo losing very very little on the Gamecube, unlike Sony with their ps2. Yet the DVD GC system is in the same comparitive price as a PS2. So I ask what exactly is taking money and what isn't? Its what I'd like to know really. I'm pretty sure somewhere inside theres a big difference.

hgblob
09-10-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Alucard
Thats something I dont fully understand. How it can cost only $30 or so to add DVD playback.

The PS2 was designed with games on DVD in mind. So, the laser, chips, whatever (I'm no tech wiz, either :wink: ) to read DVDs were already in place for the games. All that was needed to enable the PS2 to play DVD movies was just a piddling software and/or legal issue, which cost about US$30 per unit to rectify.

I'm no tech wiz or anything, but would there have been added costs to set the hardware up into the system for it to be able to play movies? Stuff we dont know about that have to be added in. If you look at the costs you see Nintendo losing very very little on the Gamecube, unlike Sony with their ps2. Yet the DVD GC system is in the same comparitive price as a PS2. So I ask what exactly is taking money and what isn't? Its what I'd like to know really. I'm pretty sure somewhere inside theres a big difference.

What you're asking is equivalent to asking, "Why are Porsches and Ferraris differently priced?" Sure, they both do the same things -- they enable people to drive fast -- yet why don't they cost the same? Because they're made by different people. Because although Porsches and Ferraris contain the same basic innards, they're each made to accomplish their functions through slightly different means.

Similarly, as far as the GC, Xbox, and PS2 are concerned, they are different on the inside. Although all three consoles are for the same thing -- to play games on -- they do not contain the exact same innards.

IIRC, there is an article on ArsTechnica regarding the way the PS2's Emotion Engine works in comparison to normal PC architecture, and while I didn't fully understand everything, I did get the immediate impression that the PS2 goes about doing its job in a much, much different manner than, say, the Xbox.

Kid0_oIcarus
09-10-2002, 08:19 AM
Well, I'm not trying to argue for Sony, but one point to consider is the cost of the internal components. Prices generally go down over time. So had the GC been out earlier, Nintendo would have lost more per console then, than they are doing so now.

Seska
09-10-2002, 08:28 AM
AFAIK most of the cost that drove the PS2's price through the roof was NOT the DVD reader, lens, laser, playback (isn't playback decoding done though software?). Those things are dirt cheap. The costly part of the PS2 production was the emotion engine and all the components that make a PS2 a PS2. This aint no Xbox with a AMD processor and a modified Geforce 3. Sony had to purchase its own factories to enable them to meet demand and produce the consoles at a steady rate.

This was years ago, why is PS2 still expensive today? If you ask me, because they can afford to keep it expensive. Despite the GC and the Xbox being far more advanced, the PS2 has the greater software library, and everyone wants one. Because demand is high, Sony can afford to keep the price high since people will keep buying it.

ATMA
09-10-2002, 08:30 AM
Hey Alucard if these things about PS3 gets anoying just ignore them like i do wait till the end of the product or when you start to see some real pics of the ps3! Do like i do ..just let it be and enjoy the console in your case consoles you have and let all these romours or hype things pass by!

*singing * "Always look at the bright side of life"............ :sing:

Alucard
09-10-2002, 08:35 AM
Well the Gamecube can also play DVD games though. Just they are special DVD discs to help counter piracy. It also has 4 joyports which must add to something aswell.

And Icarus, the Gamecube is more powerful then the ps2, but the XBox is a little better then the GC. Yet MS is losing heaps on the XBox which came out about the same time as the GC, which is losing very very little. so I still think there must be stuff on the inside.

Its probably something to do with the better sound the ps2 has. THX or whatever there is inside it. Mainly for movies ofcourse. But I guess thats one thing of many thats expensive. And the emotion engine is a freakish thing.

Oh I dont know anymore. I just want a new Castlevania game. That'll keep me happy and sedated.

Black Ace
09-10-2002, 09:34 AM
PS3 is said to be all in one entertainment. Sheesh, I don't need all of that. Just give me a damn system made only to play games, like the GameCube. And Sony is throwing bogus spec about this Cell technology. Remember how they hyped the PS2? 100-200 million polygons per second? Turned out to be raw polygons, actual is somewhere 5 - 10 millions.

crazytaxinext
09-10-2002, 09:37 AM
Playstation 3 To Be Sales Free By 2006!

I've always said that if things go this way I'd just quit and stick with my old systems. For multi purpose gaming and other stuff I'd get a PC. For stand alone gaming I don't need expensive and useless extras.

Kid0_oIcarus
09-10-2002, 10:23 AM
Exactly! That's what I'm yelling over h33r! Give me a machine made to play games and only games - not do my laundry and mow my lawn!

Alucard, the gamescube was designed to be efficient and low cost - the xbox was designed to be big and full of "add ons" That's why the cost is so huge.. the Gamecube is smaller so costs are already going to be smaller, while the Xbox has an ethernet adapter, hdd, and dvd support all inside! Not to mention Intel! Intel is more expensive than AMD.. they should've gone AMD.. then I bet you the thing would be at least $100 cheaper.. :D And better too! I would have bought one then ;)

Zakko
09-11-2002, 10:01 PM
Well, I can say that if Playstation 2 don't have online or DVDs or cannot play the PSone then it would be costs 100 dollars. But right now, I am sorry, it costs $299.99 to have all that. But lucky everyone that don't have PS2 and planning to buy one only costs 249.99 dollars. I bought it 299.99 dollars the LAST one that store have!:P

Healin
09-12-2002, 06:00 AM
Fact in this, consumers always want their gadgets to get smaller. Like a call phone, it use to be huge but nowadays, they are so small u can hardly get a good grip at them.

On the other hand some companies go the other way to achieve this "shrinking effect". They pack more capabilities into stuff they generally can't shrink too much.

PS2 for example, it will probably cost more to get state of the art mini components or probably a design change to make it smaller.... but for a reasonable low price, they can just make it read DVD movies. Heck it was already made to run game DVD ROMs so why not? It is a good gimmic to sway consumers mind too. You intend to but a DVD player for ur room.... then presto!! A PS2 that not only plays DVD and also games! I'll buy it!! May not apply to many American or European friends here but hey, space is expensive in Asia particularly Japan (never lived in a house). I've always got the impression that unless they are damn rich, they'll probably be cramming in a small apartment.

Jus my 2 cents here.....

Alucard
09-12-2002, 12:14 PM
Well the Panasonic Gamecube which can play games and also DVDs, is smaller then the PS2 and about the same price.

Kid0_oIcarus
09-12-2002, 01:49 PM
Yeah, but the PS2 also had that whole- backwards compatability thing.. which I don't see working for the GC.. since compared to most GC titles, N64 titles looked like | ))

Zakko
09-12-2002, 06:58 PM
Hold on! Are you saying that dvd machine for GameCube is smaller than PS2? I don't understand. DVD-ROM are just inside the PS2 and Game Cube has to buy the seperated systems just for playing the DVDs. I would prefer buy the cheaper DVD machine than buying a DVD machine just for with Game Cube. So do you think that DVD machine for Game Cube worth it?

Healin
09-12-2002, 10:49 PM
Its not the normal GC but a Panasonic GC. ;)

Alucard
09-13-2002, 12:53 AM
Well its pretty freaky to look at. Its taller then a GC, but the same width I think. You should be able to find pictures of it somewhere. But its only released in Japan. Thats the problem.

Zakko
09-13-2002, 01:47 AM
Really? I thought it released at USA too. Oh well. PS2 are just flat than GC. You don't have to place the PS2 as standing but you can place PS2 as a laying. It's better way because when you put stand then it will have reading cds problems. My cousin have the GC too and it is fun too but I just don't think Pansonic's DVD system for GC are worth it that all.:)

Kid0_oIcarus
09-13-2002, 08:04 AM
Last I checked, after getting all the mods for the Panasonic GC for Region free DVD playing, and game playing, with a profiessional flair to it- the thing was about $400 dollars. I was like :crazy:!!

Alucard
09-13-2002, 08:35 AM
Got to remember the system is more then the PS2 feature wise and power wise. And thats import price. Besides, its a special edition release so it'll be more expensive.

crazytaxinext
09-13-2002, 09:56 AM
Playstation 3 thinks outside CTN's wallet


If it isn't a proper console I won't be getting it.

Zakko
09-13-2002, 10:19 PM
I think if Pansonic DVD have released here then it would be cheaper than the imports prices. The real reason why import are more expensive because they are hard to get.

Healin
09-13-2002, 11:33 PM
Might be so... I actually pay less when I import games from states. Gotta be 2 or more though. The price of a average game here is around 65 to 70 US$. Jap games are cheaper though. A new release will approximately be around 40 to 45 US$. I live on a dot so that's the price I gotta pay. :crying:

Zakko
09-14-2002, 12:41 AM
How come Japan got everything and USA don't get everything.....:crying:

Healin
09-14-2002, 07:00 AM
Don get the wrong idea. I live on a dot and not in Japan. But Japan is closer compared to States. Probably the reason why Jap games are cheaper.